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Thread: Fire Mike Tomlin

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    There should be no problem hiring the next HC then.
    As always, my argument is that tallent is more important than coaching. But coaching is still important.

    The N=3 isn't big enough to know of our success hiring coaches is luck or skill. Or if we'll still have the same process without Dan.

    I think taking the chance with the end of Ben's career is a bad bet (has negative expected value). If Ben retires and Mason isn't a clear franchise I'm fine looking for our next coach.

    So, I'm not necessarily against getting rid of Tomlin. It's just that I think the arguments for doing so mostly suck (e.g. He was hired because of the Rooney Rule)
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 09-20-2019 at 11:48 AM.
    Talent vs coaching: [[url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14][/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: [... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5]

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): [... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22]

    Tomlin's Las year: [... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284]

  2. #302
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    While I'm still halfway in the fire everyone camp, I realize our ownership is patient.

    Most wanted Cowher gone before he won his first SuperBowl. The funny thing is he probably became a much better coach by then compared to when we first hired him. The irony is everyone loved him when he was a less experienced and less able coach. I think we just grew tired of him. And that's probably the hardest thing everyone faces in coaching.

    In a similar vein, I'm certain NE fans would turn on Belichick if he started putting up losing seasons. Take away Tom Brady and he might revert back to Cleveland Brown Bill who was a crappy coach on some level. But the reason it would be so easy to turn on him is his press conferences annoy everyone. You don't notice it while people are winning. But as soon as they lose, every little idiosyncrasy becomes grating. And Bill B is far worse than Tomlin. Tomlin still manages to win press conferences on the regular and is generally a pretty positive and likable guy.

    I think karma is going to reward the Steelers' patience with Tomlin and I think he's going to do something with Rudolf. Tomlin imho can be really good in the situation we're now in. He doesn't panic. Stays consistent. Maintains a high level of expectation. I generally think we're good until he unleashes hell which is really his way of saying he's at a point of panicking. Heck, what if he can be consistent and the calm in the storm and win #7 with Mason? How would you rate Tomlin then?

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Pass defense is how you judge a DB coach. He was cornerbacks coach of the best pass defense of the era at Tampa Bay.
    He was DC of the Vikings with the number 8 defense. You ignore that people did nothing but pass on that team as they had a HISTORICALLY great run defense. Overall defense......
    THAT is how you judge a coordinator.

    You guys love to parse his record unfavorably.
    Yup...when his sole focus was on pass defense as DB coach in Tampa, the secondary was an unquestionable strength.

    When he moved up to Minnesota for a year and was in charge of the defense as a whole, their overall defense was an unquestionable strength.

    When he came to Pittsburgh as head coach, where his focus could no longer be just on just one position, or just one side of the ball, but rather the production of the entire team as a whole, his overall W-L record since he was hired was an unquestionable strength.

    NB's input about Dungy's recommendation carrying a great amount of weight makes perfect sense, since the Rooneys have always held Tony in high regard from his time in Pittsburgh as both a player under Noll and as an assistant coach under Noll as well.

    And as for the opinions that we should have no problem hiring a new head coach now...well, when Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher, and Mike Tomlin were all hired, the primary decision maker throughout that entire time for this team was Dan Rooney. Dan was a much more astute football mind than his father Art (the Chief), and none of us know yet how much of Dan's expertise was truly passed along to his son Art II. Without Dan Rooney, I'm not entirely sure that we'd be able to pick another guy who will be successful in his job here for well over a decade like the last 3 HC hires were.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  4. #304
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    Steeler fans just want to win SB’s... that’s it, that’s all.

    They don’t care about the regular season even though that’s what determines the post season.

    win a SB or gtfoh.

    I’m excited to see how the “post Cowher” team plays.. lol.

    Such a silly argument.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post

    I think karma is going to reward the Steelers' patience with Tomlin and I think he's going to do something with Rudolf. Tomlin imho can be really good in the situation we're now in. He doesn't panic. Stays consistent. Maintains a high level of expectation. I generally think we're good until he unleashes hell which is really his way of saying he's at a point of panicking. Heck, what if he can be consistent and the calm in the storm and win #7 with Mason? How would you rate Tomlin then?
    I hope your right.

    Even though it would mean we'll keep having these arguments (it will shift from "with Cowher's players" to "with good to great QB")
    Talent vs coaching: [[url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14][/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: [... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5]

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): [... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22]

    Tomlin's Las year: [... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284]

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Without Dan Rooney, I'm not entirely sure that we'd be able to pick another guy who will be successful in his job here for well over a decade like the last 3 HC hires were.
    This is a great point and Dan's impact shouldn't be overlooked in all matters.

    I think a lot of the talking heads lump in all the Rooney's like they are 1 person.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh wow View Post
    Steeler fans just want to win SB’s... that’s it, that’s all.

    They don’t care about the regular season even though that’s what determines the post season.

    win a SB or gtfoh.

    I’m excited to see how the “post Cowher” team plays.. lol.

    Such a silly argument.
    Hard to take someone serious when they say 'its cool to lose as long as they tried'

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Hard to take someone serious when they say 'its cool to lose as long as they tried'
    You are one of those people who make up stuff to fit your agenda.

    Enjoy the season!!

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Hard to take someone serious when they say 'its cool to lose as long as they tried'
    This is a strawman argument because no one says trying is good enough.

    Instead what they say is (1) that they have exceeded realistic expectations if you look at reasonable time frames under Tomlin and (2) firing Tomlin isn't likely to lead to better results.

    But feel free to keep tilting at windmills.
    Talent vs coaching: [[url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14][/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: [... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5]

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): [... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22]

    Tomlin's Las year: [... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284]

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
    Nobody would have been surprised by Grimm or Whis, strictly because they were with the organization at the time. That's the difference. Nobody ever even heard of Tomlin.

    1 year as a coordinator, where his defense was ranked last against the pass, with no ties to anyone in Pittsburgh, was obviously more than enough to get one of the most coveted coaching positions in all of sports?
    the other owners would have gave the rooney's hell if they didn't hire a minority.
    after creating the rule

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