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Thread: Fire Mike Tomlin

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    The finalists for the position were Tomlin, Grimm, and Wisenhunt.

    It was widely speculated that Grimm was the favorite IIRC.

    The Steelers have been good at selecting coaches and those were the people they felt were their best three options. Who you were interested in doesn't matter.

    Sorry that it doesn't fit the theory re: race and the Rooney rule.
    Honest question. Tomlin was a DB coach, and a DC for a year. Seriously, do you think, if he were white, he would have been the hire?

    Personally I think he probably turned out to be the best of those 3, but we'll never know. What we do know is for the last 9 years he's won 3 playoff games, has had a HOF QB, an offense littered with future HOFers, and has done nothing with it in the playoffs. Throw in his poor game management, players literally quitting, playoff disasters, etc. Can you honestly say Grimm or Whis would have lasted this long with that resume?

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
    Honest question. Tomlin was a DB coach, and a DC for a year. Seriously, do you think, if he were white, he would have been the hire?

    Personally I think he probably turned out to be the best of those 3, but we'll never know. What we do know is for the last 9 years he's won 3 playoff games, has had a HOF QB, an offense littered with future HOFers, and has done nothing with it in the playoffs. Throw in his poor game management, players literally quitting, playoff disasters, etc. Can you honestly say Grimm or Whis would have lasted this long with that resume?
    It's not simply about playoff wins. It's about being competitive and making the playoffs and having the chance to compete for the Superbowl. 8 out of 12 seasons the Steelers had the opportunity to compete for the Superbowl. A team that fired a coach that helped a team achieve record would be making a mistake.

    So many people are looking for perfection out of a HC. Good luck with that. The next guy that comes to coach the Steelers will make plenty of mistakes. That coach will also stick to what generally made him a successful coach.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
    Honest question. Tomlin was a DB coach, and a DC for a year. Seriously, do you think, if he were white, he would have been the hire?
    Was Mike Munchak who TO THIS DAY has never been a COORDINATOR hired as a head coach because he is black?
    If Tomlin was hit by a bus........Grimm WHO NEVER WAS A COORDINATOR and an inferior position coach, would have gotten the job.

    BTW there is the frequent assertion that in the eyes of many Tomlin cant be criticized without others calling them racist. This is not true.
    There are legit reasons to criticize Tomlin.

    But when people imply that THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY he could EVER be hired is because of his race?

    If Tomlin was a young white DC and got the job over an offensive line coach (Whiz went to AZ before we picked a coach) do you think ANYBODY would be shocked just based on his resume' which included possibly the finest job by a secondary position coach in NFL HISTORY? They led the league in pass defense BY A HUGE margin, in picks (30), AND had a historic post season secondary performance.

    Tomlin had no "Deon", neither "Woodson", no Blount. He had already 4 year veteran, slow (4.6 40) Rhonde Barber went from an unknown average corner to not just all pro but "all decade" after Tomlin. They DID have Kiffen a brilliant tactician who NEVER had such success before Tomlin coached his guys.

    Add to that he likely KILLED in the interview with what we now mock as his mastery of "coachspeak".

    You can question his accomplishments- Cool.

    But you really telling me there was no "football" basis whatsoever for hiring Tomlin?
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 09-19-2019 at 07:15 PM.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Was Mike Munchak who TO THIS DAY has never been a COORDINATOR hired as a head coach because he is black?
    If Tomlin was hit by a bus........Grimm WHO NEVER WAS A COORDINATOR and an inferior position coach, would have gotten the job.

    BTW there is the frequent assertion that in the eyes of many Tomlin cant be criticized without others calling them racist. This is not true.
    There are legit reasons to criticize Tomlin.

    But when people imply that THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY he could EVER be hired is because of his race?

    If Tomlin was a young white DC and got the job over an offensive line coach (Whiz went to AZ before we picked a coach) do you think ANYBODY would be shocked just based on his resume' which included possibly the finest job by a secondary position coach in NFL HISTORY? They led the league in pass defense BY A HUGE margin, in picks (30), AND had a historic post season secondary performance.

    Tomlin had no "Deon", neither "Woodson", no Blount. He had already 4 year veteran, slow (4.6 40) Rhonde Barber went from an unknown average corner to not just all pro but "all decade" after Tomlin. They DID have Kiffen a brilliant tactician who NEVER had such success before Tomlin coached his guys.

    Add to that he likely KILLED in the interview with what we now mock as his mastery of "coachspeak".

    You can question his accomplishments- Cool.

    But you really telling me there was no "football" basis whatsoever for hiring Tomlin?
    Yes, I think most people would be shocked at hiring someone with that resume. People were surprised with the Cowher hire.

    Both Cowher and Tomlin were defensive coaches. The difference is, Cowher usually always had strong defenses (Blitzburg). Tomlin, the man who you say presided over the greatest secondary in history, has failed miserably with that here.

    Point is, if you hire a defensive coach, you expect a good defense. Vice versa for an offensive-minded coach. Tomlin did have a good D his first few years (with Cowhers players, Lebeau, etc), but has sucked since. He was also given a HOF QB in the prime of his career.

    As far as the interview, I have no doubt he spouted the same **** that he does every week in his press conferences.

    As I said, I don't think it was necessarily a mistake to hire him. I think it's been a huge mistake not to fire him (and the entire staff) after Jacksonville (possibly even Denver)

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
    Honest question. Tomlin was a DB coach, and a DC for a year. Seriously, do you think, if he were white, he would have been the hire?
    Young offensive coaches with limited experience as an NFL position coach and coordinator seem to be popular now (think Sean McVay, Zac Taylor, etc.). Those guys happen to be white. Tomlin wasn't hired because he was black. McVay wasn't hired because he was white. Taylor wasn't hired because he was white. I'd guess their collective youth played a much bigger factor in their hires than their respective skin colors...and younger dudes obviously will tend have shorter coaching resumes than older dudes just based on the concept of their overall time spent on the planet up to that point.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
    Yes, I think most people would be shocked at hiring someone with that resume. People were surprised with the Cowher hire.
    Really. Would ANYBODY be shocked if it was Grimm? Everybody thought he was gonna be the guy.

    Both Cowher and Tomlin were defensive coaches. The difference is, Cowher usually always had strong defenses (Blitzburg). Tomlin, the man who you say presided over the greatest secondary in history, has failed miserably with that here.
    First of all, you made the ridiculous assertion that if he were white his “resume” would not get him hired. I made no case in this thread about after the hire, even went out of my way to make that clear.
    Besides Tomlin the only guy left taught fat guys to block.

    As Ruthless points out, Tomlins experience is TYPICAL in today’s NFL.

    Point is, if you hire a defensive coach, you expect a good defense. Vice versa for an offensive-minded coach. Tomlin did have a good D his first few years (with Cowhers players, Lebeau, etc), but has sucked since. He was also given a HOF QB in the prime of his career.
    But I will “go there” if you insist.

    Cowher coached Cowhers players for years.
    Two seasons after Cowher, Tomlin takes Cowhers 20th defense to a level NEVER ACHIEVED under Cowher.

    The best Steeler defenses since Noll were coached by Tomlin NOT Cowher.
    That is a fact Jack.

    Imagine some hot shot kid replaced Tomlin and Burns and Davis thrive with the best pass defense in the league? You gonna say it was Tomlins players or the new coach?
    Be honest. You know the answer.

    As I said, I don't think it was necessarily a mistake to hire him.
    Then just admit your initial point that I-took issue with was wrong.

    I think it's been a huge mistake not to fire him (and the entire staff) after Jacksonville (possibly even Denver)
    I think a time comes when most coaches rhetoric loses its power. Should he be fired after disappointing this year I’d agree.
    It happened to Noll.

    But the idea that he had no resume’ deserving of consideration, or that he has no credit for success?

    I don’t think so.

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
    Honest question. Tomlin was a DB coach, and a DC for a year. Seriously, do you think, if he were white, he would have been the hire?

    Personally I think he probably turned out to be the best of those 3, but we'll never know. What we do know is for the last 9 years he's won 3 playoff games, has had a HOF QB, an offense littered with future HOFers, and has done nothing with it in the playoffs. Throw in his poor game management, players literally quitting, playoff disasters, etc. Can you honestly say Grimm or Whis would have lasted this long with that resume?
    Yes.

    His time as a position coach (slightly longer) and coordinator (slightly shorter) was similar to Cowher's.

    Neither were hired to be Xs and Os coaches. They were hired for their passion and their ability to work with and motivate other people.

    Tomlin is very similar to Cowher IMO.
    It's totally not a surprise that we hired MT because he's just a younger version of our previous very successful coach (except for the obvious physical difference that neither of them has any control over).
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    ...

    If Tomlin was a young white DC and got the job over an offensive line coach...


    ... Then he'd be Cowher.
    Talent vs coaching: [url]www.planetsteelers.com/forums/showthread.php/48851-Poll-Question-for-Everyone/page14[/url]

    Steelers vs. Other Teams with good QBs: ... /47985-Steelers-most-successful-failure/page5

    Tomlin playoff record vs. expectations (Cowher pg24): ... /48742-Rooney-Brown-meeting/page22

    Tomlin's Las year: ... 49599-Just-sayin?p=778284#post778284

    Maniac Talent>Coaching: ...49632-Trades?p=779158#post779158

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    ... Then he'd be Cowher.
    Exactly.

    It kills me how people still complain about the Tomlin hire like Cowher was some well known coach at the time.

    All 3 Steeler HC’s have at least 2 SB appearances and 1 ring yet folks want Tomlin fired because he was “handed” the job.

    Smh...

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh wow View Post
    Exactly.

    It kills me how people still complain about the Tomlin hire like Cowher was some well known coach at the time.

    All 3 Steeler HC’s have at least 2 SB appearances and 1 ring yet folks want Tomlin fired because he was “handed” the job.

    Smh...
    Aren't you the one that always cries, " name someone that you know will be better"?

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