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Thread: Fire Mike Tomlin

  1. #81
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    Too many fans want the team to be run like a Madden team. Fire coaches, find the next hot player, plug in, and win it all.
    For us non-video game generation we know it doesn't work like that.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Too many fans want the team to be run like a Madden team. Fire coaches, find the next hot player, plug in, and win it all.
    For us non-video game generation we know it doesn't work like that.
    These das you don’t even need to plug in a hot player.

    All you need to do is find a warm body and he will be productive because it’s impossible to fathom elite talent is actually elite.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    No one is trying to pin the loss solely on the players. That's a straw man argument.
    yea... and at the same time its a hell of alot more than "players playing the game".

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    yea... and at the same time its a hell of alot more than "players playing the game".
    I agree that game planning probably matters more in the NFL than any other N.American sport.

    Coaching matters.

    I just think it matters less (maybe even much less) than talent in the vast majority of cases. If I could choose between elite execution of an average game plan or average execution of an elite game plan, I'd take the former without question (see: Bill Cowher's Steelers).

    BB in NE is the potential exception where he seems to be able to create a great D no matter who he puts back there. But, he's almost certainly the best that there's ever been at game planning given his success in the cap era (which is clearly much harder than the non-cap era).

    If Tomlin is so terrible, it would show up in his win percentage. And it doesn't. He can certainly get better at some things (e.g. challenges, short yardage plays, etc.), but the things people crucify him for don't seem to have much affect on wins and losses over the long run (where the impact of chance / luck is minimized).

    The role of chance / luck is very high in single game elimination tournaments (see March Madness).

    So much of what people dislike about him seems to be about what he says in press conferences. Coaches across the league (and smart players) do everything they can to say nothing meaningful in PCs. You can't really take anything they say at face value IMO.

    Tomlin isn't perfect, but he's better than the vast majority of coaches that have long track records in the NFL. That suggest that he's even "more better" than whatever bottom of the barrel choice you'd pick up off the street after week 1.

    Think about our current staff. We can't fire them all right now. If we fired MT today, who takes over as interim coach (because you can't give someone term in that position when trying to hire someone mid season with only crappy options left). Butler? He maybe shouldn't be the DC. Fitchner? He's only the OC because he's Ben's buddy. Maybe Austin, but it's not like he set the world on fire before he got here.

    I know I asked Terrapin, but you seem to have a similar opinion. Why does it makes sense to judge Tomlin on different criteria than Ben? I don't think it does, but those who only want to get rid of Tomlin apparently do.

    If the team is only good enough in the regular season but folds against all but powder-puffs in the playoffs, what role do you think the QB plays? My opinion is that the team has been very good over the Tomlin / Ben era. It's just that luck matters in single game eliminations and it's hard to flip heads 4 times in a row.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 09-10-2019 at 02:02 PM.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I agree that game planning probably matters more in the NFL than any other N.American sport.

    Coaching matters.

    I just think it matters less (maybe even much less) than talent in the vast majority of cases.

    BB in NE is the potential exception where he seems to be able to create a great D no matter who he puts back there. But, he's almost certainly the best that there's ever been at game planning given his success in the cap era (which is clearly much harder than the non-cap era).

    If Tomlin is so terrible, it would show up in his win percentage. And it doesn't. He can certainly get better at some things (e.g. challenges, short yardage plays, etc.), but the things people crucify him for don't seem to have much affect on wins and losses over the long run (where the impact of chance / luck is minimized).

    The role of chance / luck is very high in single game elimination tournaments (see March Madness).

    Tomlin isn't perfect, but he's better than the vast majority of coaches that have long track records in the NFL. That suggest that he's even "more better" than whoever you'd pick up off the street after week 1.

    Think about our current staff. We can't fire them all right now. If we fired MT today, who takes over as interim coach (because you can't give someone term in that position when trying to hire someone mid season with only crappy options left). Butler? He maybe shouldn't be the DC. Fitchner? He's only the OC because he's Ben's buddy. Maybe Austin, but it's not like he set the world on fire before he got here.

    I know I asked Terrapin, but you seem to have a similar opinion. Why does it makes sense to judge Tomlin on different criteria than Ben? I don't think it does, but those who only want to get rid of Tomlin apparently do.

    If the team is only good enough in the regular season but folds against all but powder-puffs in the playoffs, what role do you think the QB plays?
    Here we go again.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Too many fans want the team to be run like a Madden team. Fire coaches, find the next hot player, plug in, and win it all.
    For us non-video game generation we know it doesn't work like that.
    Northcoast..that's not true. Tomlin has wasted our window for the last 8 years. Your talking like these are knee jerk reactions.
    I'm as "non-video game generation " as you are. He's spun his wheels for nearly a decade now. And it's not been the Patriots who've repeatedly knocked him out. It's been Broncos, Ravens, Jaguars over and over again. Patriots have only knocked us out once during that period.

    I know change is scary and uncomfortable. We all know that. But Tomlin is who he is at 12 years in. For the most part, he isn't changing and how he runs his team isn't changing. And it's not working; especially in the post-season.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Too many fans want the team to be run like a Madden team. Fire coaches, find the next hot player, plug in, and win it all.
    For us non-video game generation we know it doesn't work like that.
    If the Rooneys actually followed the advice of posters on this board every time there was a "Fire Tomlin" or "Fire Everyone" thread on this board, we'd currently be on our 78th head coach since the end of the Cowher era.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I agree that game planning probably matters more in the NFL than any other N.American sport.

    Coaching matters.

    I just think it matters less (maybe even much less) than talent in the vast majority of cases. If I could choose between elite execution of an average game plan or average execution of an elite game plan, I'd take the former without question (see: Bill Cowher's Steelers).

    BB in NE is the potential exception where he seems to be able to create a great D no matter who he puts back there. But, he's almost certainly the best that there's ever been at game planning given his success in the cap era (which is clearly much harder than the non-cap era).

    If Tomlin is so terrible, it would show up in his win percentage. And it doesn't. He can certainly get better at some things (e.g. challenges, short yardage plays, etc.), but the things people crucify him for don't seem to have much affect on wins and losses over the long run (where the impact of chance / luck is minimized).

    The role of chance / luck is very high in single game elimination tournaments (see March Madness).

    So much of what people dislike about him seems to be about what he says in press conferences. Coaches across the league (and smart players) do everything they can to say nothing meaningful in PCs. You can't really take anything they say at face value IMO.

    Tomlin isn't perfect, but he's better than the vast majority of coaches that have long track records in the NFL. That suggest that he's even "more better" than whatever bottom of the barrel choice you'd pick up off the street after week 1.

    Think about our current staff. We can't fire them all right now. If we fired MT today, who takes over as interim coach (because you can't give someone term in that position when trying to hire someone mid season with only crappy options left). Butler? He maybe shouldn't be the DC. Fitchner? He's only the OC because he's Ben's buddy. Maybe Austin, but it's not like he set the world on fire before he got here.

    I know I asked Terrapin, but you seem to have a similar opinion. Why does it makes sense to judge Tomlin on different criteria than Ben? I don't think it does, but those who only want to get rid of Tomlin apparently do.

    If the team is only good enough in the regular season but folds against all but powder-puffs in the playoffs, what role do you think the QB plays? My opinion is that the team has been very good over the Tomlin / Ben era. It's just that luck matters in single game eliminations and it's hard to flip heads 4 times in a row.
    Because
    a. Hall of Fame QBs are more important to a franchise than a head coach. That's just a fact.
    b. While a QB is most important, the QB can't do a single thing about defense or special teams, both of which have been bad for years
    c. We realize you're Tomlin's most loyal fan (possibly a relative), but is your fear that huge that nobody, not a single man on Earth, can possibly do a better job?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    If the Rooneys actually followed the advice of posters on this board every time there was a "Fire Tomlin" or "Fire Everyone" thread on this board, we'd currently be on our 78th head coach since the end of the Cowher era.
    Or, like the Redskins.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    If the Rooneys actually followed the advice of posters on this board every time there was a "Fire Tomlin" or "Fire Everyone" thread on this board, we'd currently be on our 78th head coach since the end of the Cowher era.
    But probably have the same number of post season wins the last 8 years.

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