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Thread: Where Will It End?!?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Ben /Troy....2 rings.
    Peyton.....ONLY WON SB when he had AllPro DB talent 2 rings.
    Rogers......Charles Woodson....none since, 1 ring.
    Even Drew Brees....people forget this, his best teammate, the best DB he ever played with... 1st team AllPro ...Darrin Sharper 1 Ring

    TOM BRADY?
    ZERO SB wins in seasons when he does not have at least ONE Pro Bowl DB
    Do that SAME exercise with those same elite QBs and elite RBs and receivers......no correlation whatsoever to championships.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Even Drew Brees....people forget this, his best teammate, the best DB he ever played with... 1st team AllPro ...Darrin Sharper 1 Ring
    I think it's probably a good thing that people forget Darren Sharper, who is the NFL's version of Bill Cosby, currently in prison for drugging and raping multiple women in several different states.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    In the modern NFL where teams need to be able to pass and stop the pass, it makes sense that you'd want to pay your QB first and DB's second.
    Agreed.

    And to that end "elite" receivers and pass catching RBs are overrated.
    Edgerin James, Randy Moss, our own Antonio Brown and Lev Bell......ZERO RINGS despite playing with HOF caliber SB winning QBs.

    A James Conner level receiving back and Juju level receiver will excel with the right QB.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 08-19-2019 at 11:56 AM.

  4. #44
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    Two twin Barber brothers....both great talents.
    The RB played with a Manning who would wind up with TWO rings AFTER he was gone.
    The DB has a ring DESPITE a scrub QB.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 08-19-2019 at 12:03 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Do that SAME exercise with those same elite QBs and elite RBs and receivers......no correlation whatsoever to championships.
    but, it's no guarantee, right? cuz, ya know, Joe Haden....
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    but, it's no guarantee, right? cuz, ya know, Joe Haden....
    He’s been on this SB ring argument for a long time.

    Totally different argument from my argument about these guys resetting the RB market.

    Having an all pro DB doesn’t guarantee a SB and neither does not having an all pro RB.

    It takes more than 1 or 2 players to win a SB and you have to have a bit of luck as well.

    If Ben doesn’t make that tackle? Who knows.

    If JH doesn’t return an INT 100 yards??? Who knows.

    Who was the All Pro DB on those Giant SB winning teams? Who caught the game winning TD in the 2nd win vs the Pats? Plaxico Burress.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    In the modern NFL where teams need to be able to pass and stop the pass, it makes sense that you'd want to pay your QB first and DB's second. And since you want to keep your QB vertical and get the opposing QB horizontal, the next two priorities would be OL and pass rusher.

    We seem to be understanding this now. Our top cap hits right now are Ben (QB), Heyward (pass rush), DeCastro (OL), Haden (DB), Tuitt (pass rush), Dupree (pass rush), Villaneuva (OL), and Pouncey (OL).

    Plus, the contract that we signed DB Steven Nelson to has a low base salary this year, but his cap hit next year would vault him up into this level as well.

    Right now, all of our RB and WR appear to be young and cheap.
    and we missed the playoffs last year.

    Letís see how things play out this year before we say itís the model to copy.

    One thing I think people keep forgetting is NE isnít winning just because of how they build their team. Itís who they have at QB and HC that plays a huge part in their success.

    If it was as easy as following their contract model teams would be doing it over and over again.

    Itís like telling NBA teams to copy the Bulls model from the 90ís... well, teams didnít have Jordan and the Zen coach so it didnít really matter. When they were clicking they were hard to beat.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Money post.
    Moneyball is what the Pats do better than ANYBODY.

    80s Niners? Rice or Lott? He'd pay Lott
    90s Cowboys? Emmett or D. Sander? Deon every day.

    In TODAYS NFL invest in QBs and DBs over all else.
    I am convinced that THERE IS NO RECEIVER OR BACK IN HISTORY that BB would pay elite money to.

    HOF QB and elite DB on the same team?
    I cannot recall the last time THAT combo over a span of years failed to win it all.

    Think about it people......it almost ALWAYS works.

    "Can" you win without those? Sure, Philly did it a couple of years ago with NEITHER.

    But that combo pretty much will ALWAYS work.

    The Pats know this, and allocate their funds to those ends.
    I think you're pretty much correct about what BB would do.

    The question then becomes something like: how important are the non-QB decisions BB makes about roster construction.

    I tend to think that the most important thing about their roster construction is that they pay the best QB of all time less than market value.

    The rest of the things they do are probably somewhat important, but not enough by themselves to have the success they have.

    I'm not convinced another team repeating their strategy would have the same results without a Tom Brady like talent at a Tom Brady like salary cap hit.

    Ultimately, I think that a GM's job is something like (i) find elite talent, (ii) keep elite talent, and (iii) pay good and elite talent below market value. I think point (iii) is very important, but without above average to elite talent (especially at QB), it's probably not enough to have anywhere near the success NE has had.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 08-19-2019 at 01:42 PM.

  9. #49
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    The pats have made this system and fine tuned it to the point they have it down to a fine science. I think it can be replicated. I think the eagles have a system pretty similar.
    Last edited by Steel Maniac; 08-19-2019 at 03:18 PM.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    but, it's no guarantee, right? cuz, ya know, Joe Haden....
    Haden played in Cleveland for most of his career, and they pretty much just could have put a jersey on a dumpster fire under center during that era. A top notch DB with no franchise QB is essentially just running a treadmill...you aren't getting anywhere.

    In the two years Joe played here so far with a true franchise QB in Ben, that was cancelled out by the presence of a couple of well-publicized highly-paid distractions at WR and RB.

    Now that we have Haden plus Ben minus Brown and Bell we can truly put Lemming's model to the test.

    If the Steelers win the Super Bowl this year with a top QB and DB in Ben and Haden and no big money diva WR's or RB's anymore, that'll clinch it.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

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