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Thread: Where Will It End?!?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    The pats have made this system and fine tuned it to the point they have it down to a fine science. I think it can be replicated. I think the eagles have a system pretty similar.
    If that were true, I think guys from the BB coaching tree would have more success than they do.

    I think that the combination of Brady's talent / salary + BB's ability to design D that plays to his guys strengths and hide their weaknesses makes them great. Both of those guys are elite and in the conversation for GOAT (if there's even a conversation to be had).

    I hope that BB keeps coaching after Brady retires because I'd like to see if he can replicate what he's done with another QB. Then we could get more insight into how much is his system vs. how much is Brady. I think that would be a really interesting experiment.

    Same is true with Tomlin (although he's clearly not as good as BB). How much of his success is driven by his QB (and his GM which is an extra variable you don't have to think about in NE since BB is both HC and GM).

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Haden played in Cleveland for most of his career, and they pretty much just could have put a jersey on a dumpster fire under center during that era. A top notch DB with no franchise QB is essentially just running a treadmill...you aren't getting anywhere.

    In the two years Joe played here so far with a true franchise QB in Ben, that was cancelled out by the presence of a couple of well-publicized highly-paid distractions at WR and RB.

    Now that we have Haden plus Ben minus Brown and Bell we can truly put Lemming's model to the test.

    If the Steelers win the Super Bowl this year with a top QB and DB in Ben and Haden and no big money diva WR's or RB's anymore, that'll clinch it.
    I contend that the Pats win cuz, well, they have the best QB in the league. Even Ben, who isn't the top paid QB in the league, makes about $5mil more than him. When you get a guy at THAT level who is going to WILLINGLY make less this year than guys like Eli Manning and Derek Carr, it gives you flexibility.

    It's only moneyball because Brady allows it. Given other contracts, he makes about half of fair market value for a guy on his level. Seriously... Brady's going to make $600k more than Jameis Winston this year... that's it.

    https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2019/

    You win championships when you have really good (or better) starters on cheap contracts, that allow for moneyball. When Brady gives in. Or Ben's on a rookie contract. Or Russell Wilson's on a rookie contract. Even those who get there... Jared Goff on a rookie contract. Or Wentz (Foles filled in at a bargain price)...
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

  3. #53
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    Ezekiel Elliott found “Zeke who?” quip disrespectful

    Posted by Josh Alper on August 19, 2019

    Cowboys owner Jerry Jones went for a laugh after Saturday night’s game against the Rams when he was asked about running back Ezekiel Elliott‘s ongoing holdout.

    Jones quipped “Zeke who?” in response to the question and then went on to say that “we’re having some fun, not at your expense” in reference to Elliott. Elliott didn’t find it as amusing as Jones.

    Elliott’s agent Rocky Arceneaux told Chris Mortensen of ESPN what he and his client thought of Jones’s remark.

    “I didn’t think it was funny and neither did Zeke — we actually thought it was disrespectful,” Arceneaux said.

    The quickest way to putting a smile back on Elliott’s face would likely be to give him what he’s looking for on the contract front. Mortensen adds that there’s been “no real activity yet on negotiations,” however, and that suggests it may be a while before anything happens in that area.

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...disrespectful/

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I think you're pretty much correct about what BB would do.

    The question then becomes something like: how important are the non-QB decisions BB makes about roster construction.

    I tend to think that the most important thing about their roster construction is that they pay the best QB of all time less than market value.

    The rest of the things they do are probably somewhat important, but not enough by themselves to have the success they have.

    I'm not convinced another team repeating their strategy would have the same results without a Tom Brady like talent at a Tom Brady like salary cap hit.

    Ultimately, I think that a GM's job is something like (i) find elite talent, (ii) keep elite talent, and (iii) pay good and elite talent below market value. I think point (iii) is very important, but without above average to elite talent (especially at QB), it's probably not enough to have anywhere near the success NE has had.
    I think another part of the picture is that BB is both GM (de facto, the Patriots don't have anyone with that title) and head coach (*edit: I see you noted this in a subsequent post). So free agency/trades/drafts are always bringing in exactly the kind of players that the head coach wants. And the head coach trains the scouts, so those guys are on the lookout for the kinds of players the coach knows will fit his system.

    And then there's the system, which is really a non-system, in that it is constantly in flux. Here's a question/response from today's press conference:

    Q: Do you notice that even after a full year with a guy, you find new ways that you may be able to fit him into the scheme of things?

    BB: Sure, sometimes, yeah. I think there’s always a period of growth. I mean, I’ve been with one player for 20 years, and I think there’s still growth. Tom and I talked about a lot of things the last couple weeks just relevant to the offense, plays, evolution of different things that we’re seeing, how to adjust to them, how to handle them. So, I think that’s ongoing. Certainly, if we do it, I would think that would be true of any player, or any coach for that matter. It’s an evolving game. It changes every year, it changes week-to-week, so I don’t think you’re ever just stuck in one spot.
    Last edited by tiproast; 08-19-2019 at 08:51 PM.

  5. #55
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    Always think it’s funny when people compare Tomlin and Billicheat’s personnel.

    Tomlin doesn’t have the power Billicheat has so it’s much harder to discipline, move players based on money.

  6. #56
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    Having an all pro DB doesn’t guarantee a SB
    I SAID EXACTLY THAT....and gave the Eagles as an example. But make stuff up, the only way to win with me.

    and neither does not having an all pro RB.
    I love all pro backs. On rookie deals. They are not worth paying big bucks if you want a championship.

    Since Marshall Faulk TWENTY YEARS ago....name the high paid elite back that was money well spent?

    Who was the All Pro DB on those Giant SB winning teams?
    You cite one team to make a case that I am wrong? A backup QB won a SB, doesn't invalidate the value of elite QBs.

    Who caught the game winning TD in the 2nd win vs the Pats? Plaxico Burress.
    A "good" not "great" receiver.....you make my case.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 08-20-2019 at 01:50 AM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    I contend that the Pats win cuz, well, they have the best QB in the league. Even Ben, who isn't the top paid QB in the league, makes about $5mil more than him. When you get a guy at THAT level who is going to WILLINGLY make less this year than guys like Eli Manning and Derek Carr, it gives you flexibility.

    It's only moneyball because Brady allows it. Given other contracts, he makes about half of fair market value for a guy on his level. Seriously... Brady's going to make $600k more than Jameis Winston this year... that's it.

    https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2019/

    You win championships when you have really good (or better) starters on cheap contracts, that allow for moneyball. When Brady gives in. Or Ben's on a rookie contract. Or Russell Wilson's on a rookie contract. Even those who get there... Jared Goff on a rookie contract. Or Wentz (Foles filled in at a bargain price)...
    I've said this all along...Brady TAKES less, But does he?

    I don't put ANYTHING past him, or that organization...It wouldn't put it past me if Kraft pulled Brady in his office and said wink wink...You take this much, But you'll really make THIS much..." Reaches in his Desk, And pulls out a huge sack of dough "

    Who would ever know, and doesn't this sound like something THEY would do!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco1981 View Post
    I've said this all along...Brady TAKES less, But does he?

    I don't put ANYTHING past him, or that organization...It wouldn't put it past me if Kraft pulled Brady in his office and said wink wink...You take this much, But you'll really make THIS much..." Reaches in his Desk, And pulls out a huge sack of dough "

    Who would ever know, and doesn't this sound like something THEY would do!
    Like I have said before, let's not think Brady is purely altruistic in his salary approach. Unlike most every other QB in the league he doesn't have to earn the generational money for his family. His wife is worth two to three times more than he is and that takes alot of pressure/motivation off Brady to max his earning potential.

  9. #59
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    I really don’t think there is pressure to earn as much as possible when you are already worth X amount of dollars.

    Some people have egos and want to earn every dollar they can from an org (can’t knock them) and others are content making a lot of money AND having the best chance to win.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Like I have said before, let's not think Brady is purely altruistic in his salary approach. Unlike most every other QB in the league he doesn't have to earn the generational money for his family. His wife is worth two to three times more than he is and that takes alot of pressure/motivation off Brady to max his earning potential.
    It is a long game.

    Brady has built a BRAND because of his success which is aided by his taking a financial hit made easier by his wife's success.

    Mark my words. I don't know how but his lifelong earnings long after retired will exceed all his peers because of his brand.

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