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Thread: AOD: Which pair of Steelers OLBs was more dominant? Woodley/Harrison or Greene/Lloyd?

  1. #1
    Legend

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    AOD: Which pair of Steelers OLBs was more dominant? Woodley/Harrison or Greene/Lloyd?

    Another Offseason Debate.... I don't think it's even close, Greene/Lloyd were simply a scary duo for any OL to face, let alone the QB that took the beating when the OL broke down.

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...eene-lloyd-nfl



    Which pair of Steelers OLBs was more dominant? Woodley/Harrison or Greene/Lloyd?
    12
    Since the Steelers transitioned to a 3-4 defense, they have been known for their outside linebackers. Time to take a guess as to which was better.

    By Jeff.Hartman@BnGBlitz Jun 27, 2019, 3:27pm EDT
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    San Diego Chargers v Pittsburgh Steelers
    Photo by Gregory Shamus/Getty Images
    In the 90s when the Pittsburgh Steelers defense was known affectionately as ‘Blitzburgh’, the team transitioned to a 3-4 defense and started a trend not only in the NFL, but within the franchise. From Dom Capers to Dick LeBeau and now Keith Butler, the Steelers still call the 3-4 home, even though they don’t play as much of it as they once did.

    Regardless of frequency, a 3-4 defense is predicated on the success of their outside linebackers. Throughout history the Steelers have had many notable outside linebackers. Everyone from Joey Porter, Jason Gildon and even current linebacker T.J. Watt.

    But the best groups were ones that worked in tandem. You want to take one away, then get ready to get burned by the other. It was a true ‘Pick Your Poison’ scenario with these sets of OLBs, and was the crux of this article/series.

    When thinking about the best OLB tandems in Steelers’ history, focusing on the 3-4 schematic linebackers (sorry Jack Ham), the obvious pairs are:

    Kevin Greene and Greg Lloyd and James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley.

    The 90s tandem of Greene and Lloyd were dominant in every stretch of the word, but failed to bring a Lombardi trophy home to Pittsburgh. Woodley and Harrison were able to get to two Super Bowls, and brought back Super Bowl 43 in dramatic fashion.

    When making this choice it shouldn’t be strictly based on statistics. For instance, if you are looking at nothing but sack production, it could sway your vote one way. But if you are to look at the entire picture, including the ability to play in space and in coverage, it might point you to a different tandem.

    With that said, of the two tandems, which would you consider the best in the ‘Pick Your Poison’ style contest? Let us know by voting in the poll below, and be sure to also let your voice be heard in the comment section below this article!

  2. #2
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    LLoyd/Greene. They weren't the reason the 90s teams didn't win a Super Bowl. You need a qb to win the Super Bowl.

    They WERE the reason we got close.

  3. #3
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    That's a pretty lazy article.

    They say that stats aren't everything, but don't present any stats at all.

    I think Lloyd / Greene were more menacing, but they played in a time when you were allowed to be menacing.

    I'd like to see sack totals and turnovers. It seems to me that Harrison and Woodley had an unusually high number of strip sack fumble recoveries. Harrison also won us a SB with that Int return.

    If they generated more turnovers (which I think they did), I think I vote the newer players. But I was older when I watched them and might be letting the SB win bias my pick.

  4. #4
    Legend

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    Well, since the article was too lazy to include actual stats, let's look at them here.

    Kevin Greene played in Pittsburgh across from Greg Lloyd for 3 years from 1993-1995.

    Let's compare those 3 seasons to the best 3 season stretch for Harrison and Woodley (2008-2010).

    And for good measure, let's throw in the best 3 year stretch for the Jason Gildon-Joey Porter pair as well (2000-2002).

    The relevant stats I'll include are tackles (T), sacks (S), forced fumbles (FF), fumbles recovered (FR), and interceptions (INT).

    The three year totals for all 3 of the strong side OLB's (Greene, Gildon, and Woodley) were surprisingly similar.

    Kevin Greene (93-95) T: 184, S: 35.5, FF: 6, FR: 6, INT: 1
    Jason Gildon (00-02) T: 197, S: 34.5, FF: 7, FR: 6, INT: 1
    LaMarr Woodley (08-10) T: 172, S: 35, FF: 6, FR: 7, INT: 3

    Weird, right? Almost spooky.

    The statistical difference comes in when we add in their weakside OLB parters.

    Greg Lloyd (93-95) T: 314, S: 22.5, FF: 16, FR: 2, INT: 4
    Joey Porter (00-02) T: 207, S: 28.5, FF: 6, FR: 4, INT: 5
    James Harrison (08-10) T: 280, S: 36.5, FF: 18, FR: 3, INT: 3

    When we combine them together, we get:

    Kevin Greene and Greg Lloyd (93-95) T: 498, S: 58, FF: 22, FR: 8, INT: 5
    Jason Gildon and Joey Porter (00-02) T: 404, S: 63, FF: 15, FR: 10, INT: 6
    LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison (08-10) T: 452, S: 71.5, FF: 24, FR: 10, INT: 6
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Well, since the article was too lazy to include actual stats, let's look at them here.

    Kevin Greene played in Pittsburgh across from Greg Lloyd for 3 years from 1993-1995.

    Let's compare those 3 seasons to the best 3 season stretch for Harrison and Woodley (2008-2010).

    And for good measure, let's throw in the best 3 year stretch for the Jason Gildon-Joey Porter pair as well (2000-2002).

    The relevant stats I'll include are tackles (T), sacks (S), forced fumbles (FF), fumbles recovered (FR), and interceptions (INT).

    The three year totals for all 3 of the strong side OLB's (Greene, Gildon, and Woodley) were surprisingly similar.

    Kevin Greene (93-95) T: 184, S: 35.5, FF: 6, FR: 6, INT: 1
    Jason Gildon (00-02) T: 197, S: 34.5, FF: 7, FR: 6, INT: 1
    LaMarr Woodley (08-10) T: 172, S: 35, FF: 6, FR: 7, INT: 3

    Weird, right? Almost spooky.

    The statistical difference comes in when we add in their weakside OLB parters.

    Greg Lloyd (93-95) T: 314, S: 22.5, FF: 16, FR: 2, INT: 4
    Joey Porter (00-02) T: 207, S: 28.5, FF: 6, FR: 4, INT: 5
    James Harrison (08-10) T: 280, S: 36.5, FF: 18, FR: 3, INT: 3

    When we combine them together, we get:

    Kevin Greene and Greg Lloyd (93-95) T: 498, S: 58, FF: 22, FR: 8, INT: 5
    Jason Gildon and Joey Porter (00-02) T: 404, S: 63, FF: 15, FR: 10, INT: 6
    LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison (08-10) T: 452, S: 71.5, FF: 24, FR: 10, INT: 6
    Thanks, RB. Curious as to the overall Defensive Rankings. I remember those Harrison/Woodley defenses always being in the top 2 or 3. Not sure about the LLoyd/Greene teams.

  6. #6
    Benchwarmer

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    Close by comparison.
    Lloyd and Greene damn sure LOOKED more intimidating, in my opinion .
    But more sacks and the Super Bowl Int give Harrison and Woodley the edge.

  7. #7
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmpit View Post
    Thanks, RB. Curious as to the overall Defensive Rankings. I remember those Harrison/Woodley defenses always being in the top 2 or 3. Not sure about the LLoyd/Greene teams.
    1993: Overall Defense #3, Pass Defense #15, Run Defense #3
    1994: Overall Defense #2, Pass Defense #3, Run Defense #7
    1995: Overall Defense #3, Pass Defense #6, Run Defense #2

    2000: Overall Defense #7, Pass Defense #9, Run Defense #12
    2001: Overall Defense #1, Pass Defense #4, Run Defense #1
    2002: Overall Defense #7, Pass Defense #20, Run Defense #1

    2008: Overall Defense #1, Pass Defense #1, Run Defense #2
    2009: Overall Defense #5, Pass Defense #16, Run Defense #3
    2010: Overall Defense #2, Pass Defense #12, Run Defense #1
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  8. #8
    Pro Bowler

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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    1993: Overall Defense #3, Pass Defense #15, Run Defense #3
    1994: Overall Defense #2, Pass Defense #3, Run Defense #7
    1995: Overall Defense #3, Pass Defense #6, Run Defense #2

    2000: Overall Defense #7, Pass Defense #9, Run Defense #12
    2001: Overall Defense #1, Pass Defense #4, Run Defense #1
    2002: Overall Defense #7, Pass Defense #20, Run Defense #1

    2008: Overall Defense #1, Pass Defense #1, Run Defense #2
    2009: Overall Defense #5, Pass Defense #16, Run Defense #3
    2010: Overall Defense #2, Pass Defense #12, Run Defense #1
    I guess my final conclusion based on all the stats you've provided is...

    I'M GLAD ALL 6 GUYS WERE STEELERS!!!

  9. #9
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Well, since the article was too lazy to include actual stats, let's look at them here.

    Kevin Greene played in Pittsburgh across from Greg Lloyd for 3 years from 1993-1995.

    Let's compare those 3 seasons to the best 3 season stretch for Harrison and Woodley (2008-2010).

    And for good measure, let's throw in the best 3 year stretch for the Jason Gildon-Joey Porter pair as well (2000-2002).

    The relevant stats I'll include are tackles (T), sacks (S), forced fumbles (FF), fumbles recovered (FR), and interceptions (INT).

    The three year totals for all 3 of the strong side OLB's (Greene, Gildon, and Woodley) were surprisingly similar.

    Kevin Greene (93-95) T: 184, S: 35.5, FF: 6, FR: 6, INT: 1
    Jason Gildon (00-02) T: 197, S: 34.5, FF: 7, FR: 6, INT: 1
    LaMarr Woodley (08-10) T: 172, S: 35, FF: 6, FR: 7, INT: 3

    Weird, right? Almost spooky.

    The statistical difference comes in when we add in their weakside OLB parters.

    Greg Lloyd (93-95) T: 314, S: 22.5, FF: 16, FR: 2, INT: 4
    Joey Porter (00-02) T: 207, S: 28.5, FF: 6, FR: 4, INT: 5
    James Harrison (08-10) T: 280, S: 36.5, FF: 18, FR: 3, INT: 3

    When we combine them together, we get:

    Kevin Greene and Greg Lloyd (93-95) T: 498, S: 58, FF: 22, FR: 8, INT: 5
    Jason Gildon and Joey Porter (00-02) T: 404, S: 63, FF: 15, FR: 10, INT: 6
    LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison (08-10) T: 452, S: 71.5, FF: 24, FR: 10, INT: 6
    Nice work Ruthless.

    I am thinking somehow you have to factor in opportunities. Back in the day there were less dropbacks vs today.

  10. #10
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Nice work Ruthless.

    I am thinking somehow you have to factor in opportunities. Back in the day there were less dropbacks vs today.
    Surprisingly enough...not really (if we go further back looking at the Steel Curtain era, then yeah). Completion percentage has gone way up since the mid-90's, but not necessarily raw passing attempt numbers.

    In 1993:
    NFL teams averaged 32.2 pass attempts per game.
    QB's were sacked an average of 2.4 times per game.

    In 1994:
    NFL teams averaged 33.6 pass attempts per game.
    QB's were sacked an average of 2.1 times per game.

    In 1995:
    NFL teams averaged 34.8 pass attempts per game.
    QB's were sacked an average of 2.2 times per game.



    In 2000:
    NFL teams averaged 32.9 pass attempts per game.
    QB's were sacked an average of 2.5 times per game.

    In 2001:
    NFL teams averaged 32.6 pass attempts per game.
    QB's were sacked an average of 2.4 times per game.

    In 2002:
    NFL teams averaged 33.8 pass attempts per game.
    QB's were sacked an average of 2.3 times per game.



    In 2008:
    NFL teams averaged 32.3 pass attempts per game.
    QB's were sacked an average of 2.0 times per game.

    In 2009:
    NFL teams averaged 33.3 pass attempts per game.
    QB's were sacked an average of 2.2 times per game.

    In 2010:
    NFL teams averaged 33.7 pass attempts per game.
    QB's were sacked an average of 2.2 times per game.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...FL/passing.htm
    Last edited by RuthlessBurgher; 06-28-2019 at 02:28 PM.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

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