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Thread: AOD: Which pair of Steelers OLBs was more dominant? Woodley/Harrison or Greene/Lloyd?

  1. #41
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel View Post
    I'll second this, I have never seen you be racist in any way, shape or form. it's a shame you were unfairly criticized and attacked for it...
    Hawaiian, let me make this clear.

    Maniac was not criticized in this thread of being racist nor attacked AT ALL in this thread.

    My comments were attacked.

    "I" was essentially accused of by Shawn of implying Maniacs criticisms of Tomlin were race based.
    I have never done that to Maniac and like the guy, we just disagree on Tomlin on "football grounds".
    Heck I SHARE some of his criticisms, we differ on degree.

    Maniac has a Janet Jackson ("what have you done for me lately") "football" objection to Tomlin, I offered a "football" defense of his overall record.
    We debated Tomlin on pure "football" grounds as we have done many times.

    Shawn inserted race into a 100 percent friendly "football" debate then says WE need to stick to football?

    I was the one in this thread accused of being racially motivated Hawaiian, not Maniac.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 07-07-2019 at 11:11 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Hawaiian, let me make this clear.

    Maniac was not criticized in this thread of being racist nor attacked AT ALL in this thread.

    My comments were attacked.

    "I" was essentially accused of by Shawn of implying Maniacs criticisms of Tomlin were race based.
    I have never done that to Maniac and like the guy, we just disagree on Tomlin on "football grounds".
    Heck I SHARE some of his criticisms, we differ on degree.

    Maniac has a Janet Jackson ("what have you done for me lately") "football" objection to Tomlin, I offered a "football" defense of his overall record.
    We debated Tomlin on pure "football" grounds as we have done many times.

    Shawn inserted race into a 100 percent friendly "football" debate then says WE need to stick to football?

    I was the one in this thread accused of being racially motivated Hawaiian, not Maniac.
    Let me add,
    For the record I have no doubt Maniac would be DELIGHTED if we won the SB with Tomlin.....he just "doubts" it will happen.
    I think that is all that motivates his criticism.

    I believe he would love nothing better than to be proven wrong, he will happily celebrate with me on this very forum together. My Steeler brother.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 07-07-2019 at 11:44 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Shawn inserted race into a 100 percent friendly "football" debate then says WE need to stick to football?

    I was the one in this thread accused of being racially motivated Hawaiian, not Maniac.
    thanks for the clarification, I just re-read everything and now I understand.

    although racism definitely still exists in this country, I agree with you that a Steelers message board isn't the place to be bringing it up. I've known you for a long time now Cap, and have never known you to be racially motivated so I'm sorry that you were accused of it.

  4. #44
    Benchwarmer

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    I HOPE there aren’t Steeler fans dumb enough to either blindly attack or accept anyone’s performance based solely on their race.

    I think the head coach (Tomlin as well as Cowher) receives way too much criticism when things are bad and not enough praise for a good body of work.
    I also think some fans look for reasons and opportunities to criticize the coach.
    In this thread a comparison of OLBs somehow turns into Tomlin bashing.
    A conversation about dropped INTs turns into Tomlin’s fault. And so on.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by STH70 View Post
    I HOPE there arenít Steeler fans dumb enough to either blindly attack or accept anyoneís performance based solely on their race.

    I think the head coach (Tomlin as well as Cowher) receives way too much criticism when things are bad and not enough praise for a good body of work.
    I also think some fans look for reasons and opportunities to criticize the coach.
    In this thread a comparison of OLBs somehow turns into Tomlin bashing.
    A conversation about dropped INTs turns into Tomlinís fault. And so on.
    You got it right. It's like if a player does anything wrong, some on this board try to intimate thatTomlin taught him to do it wrong

  6. #46
    Starter

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    Quote Originally Posted by STH70 View Post
    I HOPE there aren’t Steeler fans dumb enough to either blindly attack or accept anyone’s performance based solely on their race.

    I think the head coach (Tomlin as well as Cowher) receives way too much criticism when things are bad and not enough praise for a good body of work.
    I also think some fans look for reasons and opportunities to criticize the coach.
    In this thread a comparison of OLBs somehow turns into Tomlin bashing.
    A conversation about dropped INTs turns into Tomlin’s fault. And so on.
    When fans find ways to give everyone BUT Tomlin praise during good times yet have no problem laying all the blame at his feet when things are bad it opens that door...

    I’m sure owner was blamed during his tenure. I know I wasn’t a fan of the losses at home in championship games and playing tight when the lights were the brightest but I also know fans usually are prisoners of the moment.

    When Tomlin retires and the next coach loses a few games it will be interesting seeing some fans finally give Tomlin respect.

  7. #47
    Hall of Famer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh wow View Post
    When fans find ways to give everyone BUT Tomlin praise during good times yet have no problem laying all the blame at his feet when things are bad it opens that door...

    I’m sure owner was blamed during his tenure. I know I wasn’t a fan of the losses at home in championship games and playing tight when the lights were the brightest but I also know fans usually are prisoners of the moment.

    When Tomlin retires and the next coach loses a few games it will be interesting seeing some fans finally give Tomlin respect.
    This.

    I think Steelers fans just have unrealistic expectations because we've been spoiled with success for the last three decades or so.

    Many on the Trib board talked about Cowher just like many talk about Tomlin here now. Both very good coaches that have had consistent success without being the best in the league. We've shown that Tomlin has done better in the regular season while being less disappointing than Cowher in the playoffs. But old disappointments don't hurt nearly as much as fresh ones.

    I think Cowher's "legacy" was also helped by winning close to the end of his tenure. It's easy to forget all the flops as top seeds when you ride out as a champion (many who lionize Cowher probably also forget the woeful title defense he had).

    I think we'll do the same with Tomlin when he hangs it up. Especially if the next guy isn't good to great.

  8. #48
    Legend

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    Our next coach won't get any credit until he proves that he can win without Tomlin's players.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  9. #49
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Let me add,
    For the record I have no doubt Maniac would be DELIGHTED if we won the SB with Tomlin.....he just "doubts" it will happen.
    I think that is all that motivates his criticism.

    I believe he would love nothing better than to be proven wrong, he will happily celebrate with me on this very forum together. My Steeler brother.
    Thank you Cap; I’m glad someone else other then me has some common sense. Everything you said is spot on. And anyone who can’t understand that you can’t blame Ben for the reasons the defense hasn't performed up to playoff standards for the last 8 years. Ben is not responsible for the development of the defense. Ben can only be held responsible for things towards the offensive End of the spectrum.

    Oh wow constantly inserts Ben into being one of the main problems of this team when in fact everybody who is objective will tell you it’s the defense that has held us back for the most part.
    Last edited by Steel Maniac; 07-15-2019 at 02:54 PM.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

  10. #50
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    You got it right. It's like if a player does anything wrong, some on this board try to intimate thatTomlin taught him to do it wrong
    Not at all; again ,..I was trying to point out to the Captain how he uses playoff performance as the ultimate criteria but yet it wasn't being used in regard to Tomlin. I felt it was an inconsistency on his part and he disagreed. We agreed to disagree.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

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