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Thread: AOD: Which pair of Steelers OLBs was more dominant? Woodley/Harrison or Greene/Lloyd?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Some observations.
    I never understood the great disparity in love for K Green, yet the lack of respect for Gildon or Woodley. They are pretty much exactly the same player.All three were outstanding pass rushers but were in no other way special.
    To see the degree to which the statistics only back my long held belief is stunning.

    People often get Lloyd’s strengths mixed up. Not near the rusher people remember but among the best ever against the run. We remember Lloyd’s sacks because he was a great strip sacker so his sacks were often memorable game changers

    It has been my belief that Harrison is EASILY the best singly of the lot.....and the numbers clearly back that up.

    He is the only one that was elite against the run and pass, and was the best at separating the ball from the offense.
    I would agree, Harrison is the greatest Steeler OLB, with Lloyd a close second.

  2. #22
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    Considering the situation, timing, and actual feat, Harrison made the greatest defensive play in Super Bowl history. The greatest bar none.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Boom.....

    It’s about what you do in the post season; for players and head coaches. Thank you Cap for proving what I’ve been saying
    about Tomlin. Please see my signature for the same exact thing in our head coach.
    Always gotta attack Tomlin, even when it is not remotely related to the topic.
    But lets go there.
    By THAT standard........Tomlin is a top tier coach today when compared to his peers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Considering the situation, timing, and actual feat, Harrison made the greatest defensive play in Super Bowl history. The greatest bar none.
    Tru Dat. And he decided to drop back all by himself......100 percent James Harrison.

    But a "pick" is "good" but what made the play historical was the return. It sure wasn't James foot speed, or his shifty moves.

    What made that pick a game changing touchdown was ONE OF THE BEST DISPLAYS OF BLOCKING BY A DEFENSE EVER.
    Why was the defense so primed to turn into a full blown offense machine upon a turnover?

    IT IS WHAT THE COACH DID IN THE POST SEASON, Maniac

    "We had a practice prior to the game, we picked off maybe five or six passes," Pittsburgh head coach Mike Tomlin said back in 2009 during an interview with NFL Network. "I'm watching (the) practice tape, I can't sleep, and I decide to make a cutup of every interception that we had in that practice. I noticed that we weren't rallying and getting offensive. So when we met on Thursday, I ran that cutup...didn't say much, other than the fact that this performance is probably not gonna be enough.

    "We're gonna have to get out in front of people, and we're gonna have to run one back, or maybe two back."

    Then, two sweeten the pot, Tomlin offered some incentive to the Steelers defense, who in 2008 was one of the best units of all-time.

    "I told them that the last time I coached in a Super Bowl (as the Buccaneers defensive backs coach in Super Bowl XXXVII), the defense I was apart of ran three of them back, and put 21 points on the board. And I thought that that was a great defense," Tomlin said with a laugh. "They didn't think it was as funny as I did, but for the rest of the week, when we picked the ball off, they got out in front of one another, and ran it back."

    Tomlin's prediction reached fruition on Super Bowl Sunday. After Harrison's pick, Pittsburgh's entire defense seemingly ran down the field with him, providing key blocks that helped Harrison on his way to the end zone. The pick-six gave the Steelers a 17-7 halftime lead, and is regarded as arguably the greatest defensive play in Super Bowl history.

    "That's what I'll always remember about that play, that convoy of bodies around James," Tomlin said. "The number of people out in front of him and the people willing to peel back and get people chasing him as he ran out of gas is as spectacular as the play itself."

    Polamalu said that Tomlin's prediction and emphasis on rallying after an interception was one reason why the Steelers won that game.





    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 06-30-2019 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    I would agree, Harrison is the greatest Steeler OLB, with Lloyd a close second.
    Agree.....during the 3/4 era.
    It is funny but when they were playing Lloyd was pretty much consensus the best OLBer on the team....not Greene.
    Longevity of excellence got Greene the jacket.
    Kinda like Franco who I dont consider "great" but his long productive career ended up with numbers that you cant ignore.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Always gotta attack Tomlin, even when it is not remotely related to the topic.
    But lets go there.
    By THAT standard........Tomlin is a top tier coach today when compared to his peers.



    Tru Dat. And he decided to drop back all by himself......100 percent James Harrison.

    But a "pick" is "good" but what made the play historical was the return. It sure wasn't James foot speed, or his shifty moves.

    What made that pick a game changing touchdown was ONE OF THE BEST DISPLAYS OF BLOCKING BY A DEFENSE EVER.
    Why was the defense so primed to turn into a full blown offense machine upon a turnover?

    IT IS WHAT THE COACH DID IN THE POST SEASON, Maniac

    "We had a practice prior to the game, we picked off maybe five or six passes," Pittsburgh head coach Mike Tomlin said back in 2009 during an interview with NFL Network. "I'm watching (the) practice tape, I can't sleep, and I decide to make a cutup of every interception that we had in that practice. I noticed that we weren't rallying and getting offensive. So when we met on Thursday, I ran that cutup...didn't say much, other than the fact that this performance is probably not gonna be enough.

    "We're gonna have to get out in front of people, and we're gonna have to run one back, or maybe two back."

    Then, two sweeten the pot, Tomlin offered some incentive to the Steelers defense, who in 2008 was one of the best units of all-time.

    "I told them that the last time I coached in a Super Bowl (as the Buccaneers defensive backs coach in Super Bowl XXXVII), the defense I was apart of ran three of them back, and put 21 points on the board. And I thought that that was a great defense," Tomlin said with a laugh. "They didn't think it was as funny as I did, but for the rest of the week, when we picked the ball off, they got out in front of one another, and ran it back."

    Tomlin's prediction reached fruition on Super Bowl Sunday. After Harrison's pick, Pittsburgh's entire defense seemingly ran down the field with him, providing key blocks that helped Harrison on his way to the end zone. The pick-six gave the Steelers a 17-7 halftime lead, and is regarded as arguably the greatest defensive play in Super Bowl history.

    "That's what I'll always remember about that play, that convoy of bodies around James," Tomlin said. "The number of people out in front of him and the people willing to peel back and get people chasing him as he ran out of gas is as spectacular as the play itself."

    Polamalu said that Tomlin's prediction and emphasis on rallying after an interception was one reason why the Steelers won that game.





    It's not attacking Tomlin; it's not my fault he hasn't done anything in the post season for the last 8 years. It's not about what he did ten years ago; what is he doing in the last 8 years of postseason play? All those quotes are stuff in the past. Where are all the quotes that lead to great accomplishments in recent times? Exactly.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    It's not attacking Tomlin; it's not my fault he hasn't done anything in the post season for the last 8 years. It's not about what he did ten years ago; what is he doing in the last 8 years of postseason play? All those quotes are stuff in the past. Where are all the quotes that lead to great accomplishments in recent times? Exactly.
    The topic is not Tomlin Maniac. To bring him into THIS discussion when he is NOT a linebacker serves one purpose. It is to attack Tomlin. Stop denying, just own it dude.You also called the Harrison touchdown, "the greatest defensive play ever". I used THAT line of yours your out of context attack on Tomlin back on topic.

    This is my beef with you on Tomlin. I share your disappointment in Tomlin last season. I have said should last seasons trend continue, he needs to go.
    Heck Noll outlived his usefulness. Doesnt diminish what he accomplished. I have said Tomlin may have lost the team. He does deserve the chance to right the ship based on his overall success.

    My beef is your desire to be dismissive of Tomlins successes like his coaching did not contribute to our success. My reply to you addressed that lie IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS discussion.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 07-01-2019 at 09:45 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    I would agree, Harrison is the greatest Steeler OLB, with Lloyd a close second.
    Technically, Jack Ham is the greatest Steeler OLB, but trying to compare what Ham did as a 4-3 OLB to what Harrison, Lloyd, Porter, etc. did as 3-4 OLB's would be like trying to compare apples and microsofts.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Technically, Jack Ham is the greatest Steeler OLB, but trying to compare what Ham did as a 4-3 OLB to what Harrison, Lloyd, Porter, etc. did as 3-4 OLB's would be like trying to compare apples and microsofts.
    I agree. Over a decade of excellence.

    But I will say this. For a brief period, JH was the most "dominant" outside linebacker in team history.
    Their roles were different, but 2008......despite all our legendary HOF talent history, no Steeler linebacker period had a more dominant season than JH had that year.

    I would suggest only young (pre 75) Joe Greene has single handedly ever impacted the defense as greatly.

    BTW in the 70s, if I had to choose one linebacker from that era it would be Lambert. It isnt close for me.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 07-01-2019 at 11:09 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    The topic is not Tomlin Maniac. To bring him into THIS discussion when he is NOT a linebacker serves one purpose. It is to attack Tomlin. Stop denying, just own it dude.You also called the Harrison touchdown, "the greatest defensive play ever". I used THAT line of yours your out of context attack on Tomlin back on topic.

    This is my beef with you on Tomlin. I share your disappointment in Tomlin last season. I have said should last seasons trend continue, he needs to go.
    Heck Noll outlived his usefulness. Doesnt diminish what he accomplished. I have said Tomlin may have lost the team. He does deserve the chance to right the ship based on his overall success.

    My beef is your desire to be dismissive of Tomlins successes like his coaching did not contribute to our success. My reply to you addressed that lie IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS discussion.
    Cap, if your talking about his averaging 10 wins a season, I've acknowledged that. But again, our greatness is defined by what we do in the post season.

    The only point I was making is that YOU pointed out how Harrison and Woodley were money in postseason and that trumps anything Green/Lloyd accomplished. So, with that being said, it's the same in coaching as well.

    It is inconsistent to say that you can use playoff success to define Harrison & Woodley greatness but playoff success can't be used to define a coach's success.

    But if you feel I"ve hijacked the thread then I apologize; I was just trying to show where consistency should be applied throughout.

    I leave this convo for another day.
    Last edited by Steel Maniac; 07-01-2019 at 12:32 PM.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Technically, Jack Ham is the greatest Steeler OLB, but trying to compare what Ham did as a 4-3 OLB to what Harrison, Lloyd, Porter, etc. did as 3-4 OLB's would be like trying to compare apples and microsofts.
    I agree 100%. Ham was amazing. He had 7 INTs one season. He was all over the field.

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