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Thread: Hargrave > Hampton?

  1. #1
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    Hargrave > Hampton?

    bored with this offseason quiet so thought I would do some stat snooping. Check out Hargrave's per game stats vs Hampton in the first 3 yrs. Hargrave is no slouch and I am kinda baffled on why he doesn't get on the field more often:


    Tackles
    Fumbles Def Interceptions
    Rk Player From To Solo Ast Sk FF FR Yds TD Int Yds TD
    1 Casey Hampton (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HampCa00.htm) 2001 2003 1.2 0.9 0.1 0.0 0.0 0.8 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
    2 Javon Hargrave (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HargJa00.htm) 2016 2018 1.5 0.8 0.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/

  2. #2
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    Because we play a lot of sub packages with 2 DL
    Heyward/Tuitt and Hargrave/Olaulau
    Look at snaps per game the beginning of the 2018 season.
    It will make your head spin... https://www.pro-football-reference.c...nap-counts.htm
    I wish people would/could leave politics out of a Steelers Football Forum.

  3. #3
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    Javon Hargrave Expecting Expanded DL Rotation This Season

    By Matthew Marczi
    Posted on June 20, 2019

    It seems as though we hear every year that the Pittsburgh Steelers are interested in, that they want to try, using a greater amount of rotation along their defensive line. We donít always see those results. Barring injury, itís still Cameron Heyward and Stephon Tuitt, for the most part, burning the proverbial midnight oil.

    Javon Hargrave has been the exception, as the fourth-year defensive tackle has seen his role expand in the nickel pass-rush over the course of the past two seasons, particularly last year. The man in the middle, who is due for a contract extension this summer, expressed his belief about an expanded or refined rotation this year.

    ďIím sure thatís something theyíre looking at, just seeing rotations, seeing who would be good with each otherĒ, he told Jacob Klinger of PennLive over the course of the spring workouts in the past month. ďJust seeing how they can get ready for the gamesĒ.

    Hargraveís increased opportunities in the nickel front did produce results, as he more than doubled his career sack production, posting six and a half sacks. Obviously, the fact that he was able to have that production will only increase the coaching staffís desire to get him on the field.

    In the 2019 NFL Draft, the Steelers also added another pass-rushing defensive lineman in sixth-round pick Isaiah Buggs out of Alabama. He had a career year getting after the quarterback in expanded playing time in 2018 due to injury.

    Of course, before Buggs can see playing time, he has to make the 53-man roster first, and while there is an opening vacated by L.T. Walton, who was not re-signed, he is not guaranteed to get the job. Others such as Lavon Hooks, Casey Sayles, and Greg Gilmore, all of whom were in the 90-man roster last summer, will be competing with him for that spot.

    The Steelers have been lagging behind when it comes to using a multitude of players along their defensive line. While that is more common in teams with 4-3 fronts, even 3-4 teams do it, and Pittsburgh has done it more proficiently in the past, but they have arguably lacked the personnel more recently.

    With pressure from the front line more important in todayís NFL than it has ever been before, however, one wonders how much they can get away with riding their two highly-compensated stars up front without getting reinforcements behind them.

    ďI think thatís everywhere now, especially since the game comes with a lot of passingĒ, Hargrave said of seeing teams get that kind of playing time up and down their line. ďSo you need fresh bodies in there to rush the passer a lot. So I think thatís kind of where itís going to right nowĒ.

    https://steelersdepot.com/2019/06/ja...n-this-season/

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittpete View Post
    Because we play a lot of sub packages with 2 DL
    Heyward/Tuitt and Hargrave/Olaulau
    Look at snaps per game the beginning of the 2018 season.
    It will make your head spin... https://www.pro-football-reference.c...nap-counts.htm
    Wow!
    Another victim of sub packages.
    At some point you have to wonder whether these packages work against a team by exposing trends and players.

  5. #5
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    I love Hargrave but Hampton was more important to the D imho. Both are different players and hard to compare and they were asked to play differently.

    The whole D line plays differently and Iím not sure how valuable Hampton would be today.

    Where Casey excelled was collapsing the pocket. He moved guys backward and really gave QBs no where to step up. A guy like Bud would love to have someone like Casey in the middle so when he runs 10 yards behind the LOS, thatís about where a QB would be trapped with Casey in the middle.

    Hargrave is impressively quick but Casey was quick off the ball and never really had the opportunity to go after a QB so itís a really hard comparison.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    I love Hargrave but Hampton was more important to the D imho. Both are different players and hard to compare and they were asked to play differently.

    The whole D line plays differently and I’m not sure how valuable Hampton would be today.

    Where Casey excelled was collapsing the pocket. He moved guys backward and really gave QBs no where to step up. A guy like Bud would love to have someone like Casey in the middle so when he runs 10 yards behind the LOS, that’s about where a QB would be trapped with Casey in the middle.

    Hargrave is impressively quick but Casey was quick off the ball and never really had the opportunity to go after a QB so it’s a really hard comparison.
    This. Like comparing apples to oranges. Glad we had both of them, and hope Hargrave can be utilized to his full potential in this D.

  7. #7
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    I donít think you can compare them. One is a penetrator the other a space eater thatís purpose is to occupy blockers.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (An 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. So why delay the inevitable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    I love Hargrave but Hampton was more important to the D imho. Both are different players and hard to compare and they were asked to play differently.

    The whole D line plays differently and I’m not sure how valuable Hampton would be today.

    Where Casey excelled was collapsing the pocket. He moved guys backward and really gave QBs no where to step up. A guy like Bud would love to have someone like Casey in the middle so when he runs 10 yards behind the LOS, that’s about where a QB would be trapped with Casey in the middle.

    Hargrave is impressively quick but Casey was quick off the ball and never really had the opportunity to go after a QB so it’s a really hard comparison.
    This (10 chars)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    This. Like comparing apples to oranges. Glad we had both of them, and hope Hargrave can be utilized to his full potential in this D.
    Kinda like trying to compare Jack Ham to Joey Porter. Yeah, both Ham and Porter were OLB just like Hargrave and Hampton were both NT, but their responsibilities and what coaches asked them to do was so different that it's difficult to compare at all.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  10. #10
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    Kinda wish we had a Hampton right now... The LBs would just kill other teams with a guy who actually commanded a double-team - especially now with Bush in the fold.

    Personally think that's the starting point as to why the defense isn't the same as it was with Casey manning the middle... it's so much easier to "free" a player when you have 2 free, by default (i.e., a double-team takes one and the QB aint blocking for himself).
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