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Thread: Hargrave > Hampton?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    17-1 in his career as a starter ain't "a few games" Dizz.

    Hokes only loss?
    We gave up 98 TOTAL YARDS to the Raiders whose only touchdowns were not one but TWO pick sixes by Ben.

    What is silly is crediting a NT for a run defense that was just as stout without him. People act like the only difference between a team LOADED with elite linebackers and this one with guys like Vince Williams is that Casey was such a beast freeing up everyone.

    Fact is when he WASNT THERE we never missed a beat as long as our linebackers were elite.
    I agree.
    Casey was no doubt a great player. But he was also surrounded by players like A. Smith, Kimo, Farrior, Foote, Porter, Haggans and Harrison. And let’s not forget that Polamalu also dropped down into the box and played the run like a LB. That defensive front didn’t need Casey to be great against the run.

  2. #22
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    My intent with the post wasn't to downgrade Hampton's accomplishments but to point out Hargrave has been playing some very good ball.

    But I have to say Captain has come up with some very interesting points that suggest Hampton wasn't an irreplaceable player.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    My intent with the post wasn't to downgrade Hampton's accomplishments but to point out Hargrave has been playing some very good ball.

    But I have to say Captain has come up with some very interesting points that suggest Hampton wasn't an irreplaceable player.
    maybe Big Snack wasn't irreplaceable.

    but he was still better than Hargrave...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel View Post
    maybe Big Snack wasn't irreplaceable.

    but he was still better than Hargrave...
    Everyone is replaceable.

    but I agree, Hampton was better than Hargrave.

  5. #25
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    I think they’re 2 different types of players asked to do different things.
    Not saying Hargrave is the better player, but.
    Casey is the better pure Nose Tackle.
    Hargrave can play NT, DT and DE. Is also the better pass rusher.
    Hampton – 9 Sacks in his entire 12 year career.
    Hargrave – 10.5 Sacks in his first 3 seasons.
    Last edited by STH70; 06-24-2019 at 02:09 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel View Post


    that was my first thought when I saw this thread title.
    I've been really annoyed that they (and most of the fans) wanted a NT who will get 2 extra sacks a year, but, will be not nearly as effective on run downs. Just seems like a HORRIBLE trade off.

    The question always was, "Why would i want a 2-down player?"
    A. Isn't that like having a 3rd CB or something equally critical. He won't play every down, but, the nickel CB is very critical. As is the run-stuffing NT. You need ALL the chess pieces.
    B. My legit answer is, "because he gets us to 3rd and long if they opt to run. And, he helps us get the ball back when the other team is trying to stuff it down our throats to close the game... and 3rd and inches... and <short> and goal... and...... and... "
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

  7. #27
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    With a run-stuffing NT occupying multiple blockers...
    Run for a modest 2 yard gain on 1st down
    Run for a modest 1 yard gain on 2nd down
    Results in a 3rd and 7 situation for the offense

    With a penetrating NT shooting through gaps...
    Chooses wrong gap for a 7 yard gain on 1st down
    Chooses right gap for a 4 yard loss on 2nd down
    Results in a 3rd and 7 situation for the offense

    Apples...oranges...
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    With a run-stuffing NT occupying multiple blockers...
    Run for a modest 2 yard gain on 1st down
    Run for a modest 1 yard gain on 2nd down
    Results in a 3rd and 7 situation for the offense

    With a penetrating NT shooting through gaps...
    Chooses wrong gap for a 7 yard gain on 1st down
    Chooses right gap for a 4 yard loss on 2nd down
    Results in a 3rd and 7 situation for the offense

    Apples...oranges...
    I think Hampton > Hargrave, but that's probably because Casey was among the best in his time at what he did.

    Hargrave is good and maybe better suited to today's NFL than Casey would be.

    I think the Big Snack type NT might have more trouble in today's NFL.

    More passing, more no huddle, higher pace. I don't know if that would really fit Hampton's skill set.

  9. #29
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    If most NFL teams were actually running on 1st and 2nd down the NT would be a 2 down player.
    If your run-stuffing NT was forcing 3rd and 7 most of the time that NT would be worth it.
    If 67% or more of the offensive plays were running plays that dominant pure NT would make more sense. But that’s not the case in today’s NFL
    Most NFL teams are now throwing the ball over 60% of the time. It’s a passing league and the rules are changed to support that.
    So it makes more sense to get DL that can play some NT but also be able to rush the passer. Not ones that are strictly run-stuffing NTs.
    NTs are more like 1-1.5 down players and the only time you can really predict the run is 3rd or 4th and short. And that’s no guarantee.
    Just my opinion.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel View Post
    maybe Big Snack wasn't irreplaceable.

    but he was still better than Hargrave...
    or maybe Hoke was a lot better than people give him credit for.

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