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Thread: Bell and AB

  1. #41
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    Here is the thing, we didn't lose because of Bell and Brown, all of this talk about locker room BS and off field stuff is meaningless if we don't tighten up on D and special teams.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    Here is the thing, we didn't lose because of Bell and Brown, all of this talk about locker room BS and off field stuff is meaningless if we don't tighten up on D and special teams.
    Lets scale that first statement back a bit and say that Bell and Brown had a negative impact on this year's team...

    I read reports from players that stated that Bell's holdout very much had an impact on the team early in the year. I also tend to believe that the situation with AB leading up to the last Bengals game...contributed to the poor showing and near loss with the playoffs on the line.

    I agree with you 100% though... that the defense needs tightened up from last year... and with the signings of Nelson and Barren, and the drafting of D. Bush... I believe we have taken steps to do just that.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    Lets scale that first statement back a bit and say that Bell and Brown had a negative impact on this year's team...

    I read reports from players that stated that Bell's holdout very much had an impact on the team early in the year. I also tend to believe that the situation with AB leading up to the last Bengals game...contributed to the poor showing and near loss with the playoffs on the line.

    I agree with you 100% though... that the defense needs tightened up from last year... and with the signings of Nelson and Barren, and the drafting of D. Bush... I believe we have taken steps to do just that.
    They did have a negative impact on the team but I don't think it was in the Win/Loss column, If we had made a few kicks and played some good situational defense we win the division easily and walk into the playoffs. You could have a locker room full of best friends but you won't win if you can't execute on defense and special teams. There is not one game that we lost where I thought the is due to locker room drama.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    They did have a negative impact on the team but I don't think it was in the Win/Loss column, If we had made a few kicks and played some good situational defense we win the division easily and walk into the playoffs. You could have a locker room full of best friends but you won't win if you can't execute on defense and special teams. There is not one game that we lost where I thought the is due to locker room drama.
    Yup. While I think the early off season stuff had a negative effect I don’t think it carried over into the games.

    We were never really blown out except for the KC game and we still made it interesting. They shredded us on defense in that game.

    Denver game we had the stupid fumble at the GL by Grimble.

    Cleveland game was a ton of turnovers.

    Saints game was terrible pass interference calls and a fumble late.

    A few lucky bounces or breaks and we probably make the playoffs.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    They did have a negative impact on the team but I don't think it was in the Win/Loss column, If we had made a few kicks and played some good situational defense we win the division easily and walk into the playoffs. You could have a locker room full of best friends but you won't win if you can't execute on defense and special teams. There is not one game that we lost where I thought the is due to locker room drama.
    While I get your point, I think there is a mix of factors. I believe we need to fix the defense to win a SB true. Made kicks would have got us in despite the drama last season...true as well.

    But I also believe if you take away last seasons chaos......we were a playoff caliber (not SB) team and could have at least made the playoffs.

    It needs to be fixed and I am encouraged by what we see now.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    While I get your point, I think there is a mix of factors. I believe we need to fix the defense to win a SB true. Made kicks would have got us in despite the drama last season...true as well.

    But I also believe if you take away last seasons chaos......we were a playoff caliber (not SB) team and could have at least made the playoffs.

    It needs to be fixed and I am encouraged by what we see now.
    I think that's pretty close to how I feel.

    But, I also didn't think that the 2006 team was capable of winning a SB.

    Getting in gives you a chance to get lucky.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I think that's pretty close to how I feel.

    But, I also didn't think that the 2006 team was capable of winning a SB.

    Getting in gives you a chance to get lucky.
    The 2006 team......missed the playoffs....

    I figure you are talking the 2005 team (2006 SB, which I figure you were referring to)

    You did not think THAT team could win the SB?

    At this point of the offseason, Ben had yet to lose a regular season start, including beating both SB teams (Eagles and Pats) in the regular season and only career loss was losing to the Pats as a nervous playoff rookie.

    It was the best regular season record in team history. THAT is the season preceding that SB win. Expectations could not be higher.

    Sure, as the 2005 season played out they underachieved and got behind.......simply making the playoffs was challenging......but the potential was there from day one.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-28-2019 at 10:47 AM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    The 2006 team......missed the playoffs....

    I figure you are talking the 2005 team (2006 SB, which I figure you were referring to)

    You did not think THAT team could win the SB?

    At this point of the offseason, Ben had yet to lose a regular season start, including beating both SB teams (Eagles and Pats) in the regular season and only career loss was losing to the Pats as a nervous playoff rookie.

    It was the best regular season record in team history. THAT is the season preceding that SB win. Expectations could not be higher.

    Sure, as the 2005 season played out they underachieved and got behind.......simply making the playoffs was challenging......but the potential was there from day one.
    Yep. I'm talking about the 2005 team that won a SB in 2006 (looked up the date by the SB win).

    While the previous year was good, I didn't think we'd be able to win the SB with a QB that young (at least if he wasn't carried by the rest of the team). And the rest of the team didn't look all that great during the season. I was happy that we made the playoffs, but figured we'd win a game or two and get sent home.

    It's interesting that you bring up the 2006 season though.

    According to Pro Football Reference the difference in the starting line up was:
    Offense:
    1. ARE (2005) out Cendick Wilson (2006) in
    Honorable Mention: The Bus retired and replaced by Davenport. Davenport got about 100 fewer yards, and lots fewer TDs because they didn't let him vulture TDs in the red zone.


    Defense:
    1. Kemo vO (2005) out, Brett Keisel (2006) in


    Special Teams:
    No Changes

    It's funny because after they won, I had the expectation that they would compete for a SB again. Instead, they missed the playoffs.

    So, my expectations were too low in 2005, and too high in 2006. I think that team's true talent was probably somewhere in between. But, they "peaked at the right time" which is another way of saying they "got lucky in a single game elimination tournament".

    But, if missing the playoffs is the price for winning a SB, I'm in.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 05-28-2019 at 11:07 AM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Yep. I'm talking about the 2005 team that won a SB in 2006 (looked up the date by the SB win).

    While the previous year was good, I didn't think we'd be able to win the SB with a QB that young (at least if he wasn't carried by the rest of the team). And the rest of the team didn't look all that great during the season. I was happy that we made the playoffs, but figured we'd win a game or two and get sent home.

    It's interesting that you bring up the 2006 season though.

    According to Pro Football Reference the difference in the starting line up was:
    Offense:
    1. ARE (2005) out Cendick Wilson (2006) in
    Honorable Mention: The Bus retired and replaced by Davenport. Davenport got about 100 fewer yards, and lots fewer TDs because they didn't let him vulture TDs in the red zone.


    Defense:
    1. Kemo vO (2005) out, Brett Keisel (2006) in


    Special Teams:
    No Changes

    It's funny because after they won, I had the expectation that they would compete for a SB again. Instead, they missed the playoffs.

    So, my expectations were too low in 2005, and too high in 2006. I think that team's true talent was probably somewhere in between. But, they "peaked at the right time" which is another way of saying they "got lucky in a single game elimination tournament".

    But, if missing the playoffs is the price for winning a SB, I'm in.
    Pretty sure Ben had his accident in 2006.

    I definitely thought we had a chance to make some noise before the accident.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    While I get your point, I think there is a mix of factors. I believe we need to fix the defense to win a SB true. Made kicks would have got us in despite the drama last season...true as well.

    But I also believe if you take away last seasons chaos......we were a playoff caliber (not SB) team and could have at least made the playoffs.

    It needs to be fixed and I am encouraged by what we see now.

    I don’t think any of that chaos caused us to lose games. I think Bell not showing up angered the OL but also gave them fuel to prove they could do it without him.

    One thing I think really hurt us was Ben and AB. I think they had some tit for tat issues going into the season. I seem to remember AB leaving OTA’s early and then coming back and crying to the media about how he was treated unfairly.

    I also remember Ben talking about how he needed to be present for workouts (probably a dig at AB) to show leadership and then he went on vacation the next day and never came back. LOL.

    They weren’t on the same page for the first quarter of the season and it hurt our passing game. There were plays where the ball was 5 yards out of bounds on long throws and times AB stopped his route when ben thought he was going deep.

    We didn’t know it at the time but I think these 2 were on cracked ice before the season even started.

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