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Thread: The Winner's Curse and Why Trading Down is the Better Choice

  1. #61
    Benchwarmer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Please....you can put in Sean McVay too. He was hired as an offensive coach (QB expertise) and he's worked out too. I could go on and on but there's no point. You believe what you choose. No sense in me wasting my time. I answered your question with the examples required and then you dismiss them. We move on.
    I don't want to argue. I said Sean Payton worked with only Drew Brees and all of the successful coaches you've listed have been good on both sides of the ball including Tomlin. These are facts. I suppose if I don't say "Tomlin sucks" then I'm automatically wrong in your opinion. Just asking.

  2. #62
    Pro Bowler

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    Quote Originally Posted by STH70 View Post
    I don't want to argue. I said Sean Payton worked with only Drew Brees and all of the successful coaches you've listed have been good on both sides of the ball including Tomlin. These are facts. I suppose if I don't say "Tomlin sucks" then I'm automatically wrong in your opinion. Just asking.
    One more disagreement and you are going on his ignore list.

    That’s if there is anymore room.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Nope...you can't just dismiss the way the other coaches and team have done because it makes Tomlin look inadequate. It amazes me how you Tomlin supporters disregard what you choose to because it doesn't fit your scenerio.

    I gave you coaches and their expertise after someone asked and now their all invalid because it proves my point? Parcells wasn't always in charge of his Defense; Neither was Bellichek when he was head coach. So please, stop. Gzzzzzz.
    This isn't about judging Tomlin. It's about trying to see what the team's expectations are when they hire a coach in general.

    Your comment is especially rediculous because you always say that you only care about comparing him to Steelers because they have magic pixie dust.

    I'm happy to compare any coach's record to Tomlin's to see if he's better or worse.

    It's you that don't look at how he does compared to other teams.

    I have showed you multiple times that he's generally better in the regular and post season compared to to other coaches with franchise QBs. The exceptions are (a) BB who is obviously better than Tomlin (and probably every coach ever) and (b) coaches with very good coaches on rookie deals (in this case PC in Seattle).

    I will add the link when I have time to search more indepth.

    When that data shows that Tomlin is generally better, you talk about how you only care about comparing him to other Steelers coaches. Then, I show you that he's as good or better than Cowher and you ignore that. So when you say you only compare to Steelers, apparently you mean only Noll.

    Here's a link: http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums...meeting/page24
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 05-08-2019 at 03:09 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Please....you can put in Sean McVay too. He was hired as an offensive coach (QB expertise) and he's worked out too. I could go on and on but there's no point. You believe what you choose. No sense in me wasting my time. I answered your question with the examples required and then you dismiss them. We move on.
    By worked out, do you mean:
    A) has a good rookie QB
    B) coached a team with a ton of talent because he doesn't have to pay his QB market value
    C) lost a WC game at home as the 3 seed or
    D) benched his best player in the playoffs and scored 3 points in the SB because he's an offensive guru ?

    I think you would absolutely loath Mcvay if he was a Steelers coach. At least you would if you evaluated him in the same way you evaluate Tomlin.

  5. #65
    Pro Bowler

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    I would just like to say that the two times Colbert traded up we got Troy Polomalu and Santonio Holmes. Also 2 Superbowl Rings.
    LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
    Here We Go Steelers!


    20 S DARNELL SAVAGE MARYLAND
    52 OLB CHASE WINOWICH MICHIGAN
    66 WR MYLES BOYKIN NOTRE DAME
    84 RB JUSTICE HILL OKLAHOMA ST.
    123 ILB DAVID LONG JR. WEST VIRGINIA
    142 OLB MAXX CROSBY E. MICHIGAN
    176 WR GARY JENNINGS JR. WEST VIRGINIA
    194 DL DANIEL WISE KANSAS
    209 TE TREVON WESCO WEST VIRGINIA
    221K MATT GAY UTAH

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by calmkiller View Post
    I would just like to say that the two times Colbert traded up we got Troy Polomalu and Santonio Holmes. Also 2 Superbowl Rings.
    Here's hoping history repeats!

  7. #67
    Pro Bowler

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    I totally, disagree with this post.....if the player is there and the need is there go after him...they didn't trade everything for Bush...They had extra picks so they did correct......

  8. #68
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword View Post
    I totally, disagree with this post.....if the player is there and the need is there go after him...they didn't trade everything for Bush...They had extra picks so they did correct......
    Yeah, I would not have necessarily liked to potentially mortgage our future if we did not have extra picks as ammo in both the 2019 and 2020 drafts...but when you have that extra draft capital in order to be able to use some of it to go get the QUALITY of player that you really need to be successful, without needing to completely sacrifice the overall QUANTITY of picks in order to fill out depth requirements at several other positions, it really is the best of both worlds.

    The fact that we were able to get the guy our front office really wanted, while still having 9 picks overall this year, and should still have 7 overall picks next year as well...that's awesome. I know that I wasn't necessarily "all-in" on Bush prior to the draft (I was smitten with the other ILB named Devin instead), the more I read about him, the more that I think he could have a Polamalu-like impact on the second level of our defense.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword View Post
    I totally, disagree with this post.....if the player is there and the need is there go after him...they didn't trade everything for Bush...They had extra picks so they did correct......
    I think I look at it like this:

    Since the data shows that staying where you are is generally better than trading up, you better be pretty sure that trading up is the right call.

    I think this fits with Colbert's general philosophy.

    This just happened to be a time where the FO felt like the potential reward was worth the risk.

  10. #70
    Legend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword View Post
    I totally, disagree with this post.....if the player is there and the need is there go after him...they didn't trade everything for Bush...They had extra picks so they did correct......
    You can disagree, but you can't argue what the study concludes.
    BUT, a reasonable objection to their analysis is that it averaged all picks across all positions. maybe a deeper look at certain positions or scenarios might lead to a quite different answer.
    As you note, if a team feels thatstrongly about a player being a true difference maker, you make the pick.

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