Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 91

Thread: The Winner's Curse and Why Trading Down is the Better Choice

  1. #51
    Pro Bowler

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    A Letter From The Editor: When the infatuation with draft picks reaches new levels

    Most of the time, fans love their team’s draft picks, but sometimes this infatuation can cloud reasonable judgement.

    By Jeff Hartman
    May 5, 2019, 11:05am EDT

    It happens every year.

    Every. Single. Year.

    After the NFL Draft comes and goes, fans look at the new players who will call Pittsburgh home and start their analysis of the picks. Sure, not every pick is beloved, but there are always those late round picks who become these folk heroes in people’s minds.

    The next James Harrison, drafted out of Kent State, cut numerous times, sent to NFL Europe only to become a Defensive Player of the Year and all-time sack leader for the Steelers.

    The next Antonio Brown, drafted out of Central Michigan, made the team as a return man and turned himself into the most prolific wide receiver the past five years unlike any the league has ever seen before.

    The next Brett Keisel, drafted out of BYU in the seventh round, and while not as prolific as the aforementioned players, certainly had a big role in the most recent Steelers Super Bowl title.

    The problem is for every Brett Keisel, there is a Joshua Frazier who doesn’t make the team. The fan base loves to love the underdog, and I get it. After all, there is a reason we here at BTSC give away the ‘Isaac Redman Award’ at the end of every training camp to the unheralded player who could shock the team and become a quality player.

    The crux of this article is for the fans to approach the upcoming offseason workouts, and training camp, with a grain of salt. If Sutton Smith is impressive in workouts, or even at Saint Vincent College for camp, it doesn’t mean he will be the next Harrison. If Ulysees Gilbert is showing off his athleticism in drills doesn’t mean he will supplant a veteran for a job other than as a special teams player.

    A perfect example of this would be the player in the image above — Tyler Matakevich.

    When Matakevich was drafted in the seventh round of the 2016 NFL Draft out of Temple, fans started to do some digging on him as a player. Matakevich received national honors including the AAC Defensive Player of the Year, and the Bronko Nagurski Trophy and the Chuck Bednarik Award. He was a tackling machine in college, and fans saw him as a future stud on the inside of the Steelers defense.

    After Ryan Shazier was injured in 2017, many wanted to see Matakevich finally get his chance to play. What did we see? An instinctual linebacker who lacked the athleticism to play the position at the highest level.

    This isn’t a cut on Matakevich, just reality.

    Matakevich is a very strong special teams player, and every team in the NFL needs guys who are nothing but depth, but play a significant role on special teams.

    And that is okay.

    For some of these draft picks, mainly players like Gilbert and Smith, if they become special teams demons and quality depth that should be viewed as a victory for the organization. After all, special teams was how Harrison got his start with the Steelers, and after Joey Porter was ejected from a game in Cleveland he was given the chance to show what he can do as a starter.

    Love these players, like you should all of the guys who don the black-and-gold, but also temper expectations. If they exceed those expectations it’s icing on the cake!

    As always,

    HERE WE GO STEELERS!

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2019/5/5/18529830/a-letter-from-the-editor-the-infatuation-with-draft-picks-reaches-new-levels-2019-nfl-draft-steelers
    STs is 1/3 of the game. We need good ST players.

    IMO, we need a better ST coach, but that's a topic for a different thread.

  2. #52
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by STH70 View Post
    I’m sorry but this line of thinking doesn’t make sense to me. MT was hired to be the HEAD COACH period, not a DB coach. They already had Dick LeBeau and Ray Horton on the staff. Once you’re a head coach in the NFL, the position that you coached really doesn’t matter. It’s a completely different game as a head coach.
    MT was coaching DBs 18 YEARS AGO, in a Tampa 2 defense. Can anyone name what position any other head coach was coaching 18 years ago? More importantly, does it matter or does anyone care?
    Sean Payton was hired as an offensive expert (expertise on QB's) and now he's a head coach and the Saints are proficient in his expertise right?
    Bill Bellichek was hired as a defensive coach. And His teams too has reflected his expertise.
    Bill Walsh was hired with an expertise in offense (and QB) and his team reflected his expertise.
    Bill Parcells was hired by the Giants as a defensive coach and his teams reflected his expertise.
    Mike Mc Carthy was hired as an offensive coach and the Packers reflected it in their play.

    Mike Tomlin was hired as a defensive coach (with an expertise as a secondary coach) and................ blah. Secondaries of Tomlin hasn't been good since Cowher's players left. 9 Years now the secondaries have been bad.

    See how Tomlin's profile doesn't fit like the other coaches I've named? That's the point I was making. You can dismiss Walsh and Bellichek if you choose and plug in Coughlin or Andy Reid but the point is, Tomlin's team doesn't fit the profile of those other coaches.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  3. #53
    Hall of Famer

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Sean Payton was hired as an offensive expert (expertise on QB's) and now he's a head coach and the Saints are proficient in his expertise right?
    Bill Bellichek was hired as a defensive coach. And His teams too has reflected his expertise.
    Bill Walsh was hired with an expertise in offense (and QB) and his team reflected his expertise.
    Bill Parcells was hired by the Giants as a defensive coach and his teams reflected his expertise.
    Mike Mc Carthy was hired as an offensive coach and the Packers reflected it in their play.

    Mike Tomlin was hired as a defensive coach (with an expertise as a secondary coach) and................ blah. Secondaries of Tomlin hasn't been good since Cowher's players left. 9 Years now the secondaries have been bad.

    See how Tomlin's profile doesn't fit like the other coaches I've named? That's the point I was making. You can dismiss Walsh and Bellichek if you choose and plug in Coughlin or Andy Reid but the point is, Tomlin's team doesn't fit the profile of those other coaches.
    It makes more sense to compare Steelers coaches to Steelers coaches because other teams do different things.

    Tomlin's hire was basically the same as Cowher's. Young up and coming guy with experience coaching in multiple phases of the game.

    Look for guys who don't have egos so large they can't work with good coordinators. Then, give them excellent coordinators and let them manage the team as a whole.

    Tomlin isn't in charge of the D just like Cowher wasn't in charge of the D.

    For a large portion of both of their tenures, LeBeau was in charge of the D.

    My understanding of HCs in the NFL is that they spend very little time interacting with players / teaching technique. That's the job of the position coach.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 05-07-2019 at 02:50 PM.

  4. #54
    Hall of Famer

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    I would say this article is generally correct. But in this case, I don’t think it will be. There was such a drop off after Bush and there was such a need that it will change the face of our D. It was the right move.
    the article assumes gradual drop-off. It doesn't factor in that trading up when a) the guy fits perfectly for what you want and b) he may be a special player; sort of that Polamalu kind of trade where ya get a 2-for-1...

    Now, in no way am I saying Devin's gonna be that impactful, but, I AM sayin "conditions are right" for it.
    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

  5. #55
    Banned

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Sean Payton was hired as an offensive expert (expertise on QB's) and now he's a head coach and the Saints are proficient in his expertise right?
    Bill Bellichek was hired as a defensive coach. And His teams too has reflected his expertise.
    Bill Walsh was hired with an expertise in offense (and QB) and his team reflected his expertise.
    Bill Parcells was hired by the Giants as a defensive coach and his teams reflected his expertise.
    Mike Mc Carthy was hired as an offensive coach and the Packers reflected it in their play.

    Mike Tomlin was hired as a defensive coach (with an expertise as a secondary coach) and................ blah. Secondaries of Tomlin hasn't been good since Cowher's players left. 9 Years now the secondaries have been bad.

    See how Tomlin's profile doesn't fit like the other coaches I've named? That's the point I was making. You can dismiss Walsh and Bellichek if you choose and plug in Coughlin or Andy Reid but the point is, Tomlin's team doesn't fit the profile of those other coaches.
    The only other position expertise example given is Sean Payton. Who has only worked with Drew Brees. Hardly a big enough sample size.
    Obviously all of these SB winning coaches have been pretty good on both sides of the ball, including Tomlin.

  6. #56
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    It makes more sense to compare Steelers coaches to Steelers coaches because other teams do different things.
    Nope...you can't just dismiss the way the other coaches and team have done because it makes Tomlin look inadequate. It amazes me how you Tomlin supporters disregard what you choose to because it doesn't fit your scenerio.

    I gave you coaches and their expertise after someone asked and now their all invalid because it proves my point? Parcells wasn't always in charge of his Defense; Neither was Bellichek when he was head coach. So please, stop. Gzzzzzz.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  7. #57
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by STH70 View Post
    The only other position expertise example given is Sean Payton. Who has only worked with Drew Brees. Hardly a big enough sample size.
    Obviously all of these SB winning coaches have been pretty good on both sides of the ball, including Tomlin.
    Please....you can put in Sean McVay too. He was hired as an offensive coach (QB expertise) and he's worked out too. I could go on and on but there's no point. You believe what you choose. No sense in me wasting my time. I answered your question with the examples required and then you dismiss them. We move on.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  8. #58
    Pro Bowler

    User Info Menu

    Lmao at listing all these great coaches and then acting like Tomlin hasn’t had success and isn’t one of the highest winning percentage coaches in NFL history.

    Did all these other coaches draft all of their players or did some of hem have success with other coaches players?

    Just wondering

  9. #59
    Pro Bowler

    User Info Menu

    Mike Tomlin:
    192 games
    125 wins
    66 losses
    1 tie
    .654 winning %

    1 SB win, 1 SB loss


    Sean Payton:
    192 games
    118 wins
    74 losses
    .615 winning %

    1 SB win

    Yet Tomlin is inadequate and Payton is propped up as some guru?

    Once again facts get in the way of a personal opinion.

  10. #60
    Legend

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by STH70 View Post
    The only other position expertise example given is Sean Payton. Who has only worked with Drew Brees. Hardly a big enough sample size.
    Obviously all of these SB winning coaches have been pretty good on both sides of the ball, including Tomlin.
    STH70, Northern_Blitz...let's move on. There's no point in going further in this discussion. Believe what you choose.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •