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Thread: 2019 Steelers by position: WR. Are we better off?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    gronk played a pretty important role in the pats passing game though. His name is mentioned by analysts when discussing the all time best tight ends
    Why do people argue a point I never tried to make.
    I never referred to Tight ends.....intentionally.

    That said as great as Gronk is.....how REALLY impactful was he on the Pats dynasty?
    He played in but TWO Superbowl victories.

    The best record the Pats have had During Gronks career......14-2 in plus SB win in 2016.
    Gronk missed half the season.
    Both losses were in the first 8 games of the season.....when Gronk actually played.
    Undefeated EVERY GAME GRONK MISSED- 8 straight plus 3 postseason.....11 straight including SB WITHOUT Gronk.

    Fact is if you take out the slow 3 TD version we saw last season.....HOF caliber Gronk has ONE SB victory.

    Our former backup runningback Legarette Blount has made FAR GREATER contributions to SB victories running the ball than HOF caliber Gronk has receiving.

    Am I saying they were better off without him? No.
    Is he a great tight end? Yes.

    But his ACTUAL VALUE when it comes to wins and losses when Brady has 4 rings WITHOUT Gronk is WAY overstated.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-05-2019 at 01:23 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Why do people argue a point I never tried to make.

    That said as great as Gronk is.....he played in but TWO Superbowl victories.

    The best record the Pats have had in his career......14-2 in plus SB win in 2016.
    Gronk missed half the season.
    Both losses were in the first 8 games of the season.....when Gronk actually played.
    Undefeated EVERY GAME GRONK MISSED- 8 straight plus 3 postseason.....11 straight including SB WITHOUT Gronk.

    Fact is if you take out the slow 3 TD version we saw last season.....HOF caliber Gronk has ONE SB victory.

    Am I saying they were better off without him? No.
    Is he a great tight end? Yes.

    But his ACTUAL VALUE when it comes to wins and losses when Brady has 4 rings WITHOUT Gronk is WAY overstated.
    sorry, but what are you trying to say then?

    there's plenty of examples of HOF WR being on SB teams or SB caliber teams. just look at the 70s steeler teams.

    are you trying to infer that the passing game doesn't matter ?
    Having a Top WR doesn't matter?

    what are you trying to get at?

  3. #33
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    Just realized......Brady is undefeated in SBs when he is without a HOF caliber pass catcher.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Just realized......Brady is undefeated in SBs when he is without a HOF caliber pass catcher.

    you know you have to win a few games just to get to the SB. Do you think he didn't help there?


    again
    WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    sorry, but what are you trying to say then?

    there's plenty of examples of HOF WR being on SB teams or SB caliber teams. just look at the 70s steeler teams.

    are you trying to infer that the passing game doesn't matter ?
    Having a Top WR doesn't matter?

    what are you trying to get at?
    I said "in the last decade" no HOF caliber receiver has a ring.

    Here is my point. Better talent at EVERY POSITION is good. But you have to know the relative value of different positions to build a winning team.
    For example.....I want a GREAT punter.....but everybody knows it is stupid to pay a punter like a QB.

    Wide receiver is the most overpaid position in the NFL. Paying top dollar for HOF talent is stupid, because the value is not commensurate with real wins and losses in todays NFL.
    I keep telling people......look at defensive backs.......invest there. Great ones.....most have rings. Think about it.

    Look at our playoff loss to the Pats a couple years ago.
    They handled our HOF caliber receiver receiver, and our weak secondary make their Lacross player look like Jerry Rice.

    As I said earlier we need to know what we have before calling this group better or worse.

    With that said, we dont need to panic for having lost a "great" receiver.

    Edelman and San-stonio BOTH have what Brown, Moss, AND even Gronk dont have, SB MVPs.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-05-2019 at 02:03 PM.

  6. #36
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    I agree with Cap; we have enough at wide receiver. We need to get our secondary up to snuff. All these “ experiment” players in the secondary is becoming tired to me. Haden is legit, everyone else is a maybe. Personally, id have liked to bite the bullet and go after Peterson of the Cardinals. If the goal is still to win while we have Ben, I do t see enough urgency from Colbert to get that secondary up to par.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  7. #37
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    BTW, I believe I was THE ONLY ONE HERE who argued agaist signing Brown.

    I debated Dizz who said, "who should we have signed"?

    I said we should have gone after Gilmore and spent Brown dough on him. I argued that the Pats invest in secondary, and it works.
    He mocked me when Gilmore had a rough start as a Pat.

    He was the REAL SB MVP.

    He was the top rated corner last season.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...ornerback-duos

    Once again:

    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 05-05-2019 at 02:14 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    BTW, I believe I was THE ONLY ONE HERE who argued agaist signing Brown.

    I debated Dizz who said, "who should we have signed"?

    I said we should have gone after Gilmore and spent Brown dough on him. I argued that the Pats invest in secondary, and it works.
    He mocked be when Gilmore had a rough start as a Pat.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...ornerback-duos

    Once again:

    Cap , I was on your side but your right; the vast majority was with Brown. Well, the FO has only learned half a lesson. Still won’t really invest in the secondary.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    I agree with Cap; we have enough at wide receiver. We need to get our secondary up to snuff. All these “ experiment” players in the secondary is becoming tired to me. Haden is legit, everyone else is a maybe. Personally, id have liked to bite the bullet and go after Peterson of the Cardinals. If the goal is still to win while we have Ben, I do t see enough urgency from Colbert to get that secondary up to par.
    Recent teams with multiple top level secondary players? Legion of doom Seahawks and the ring wearing Broncos.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    I said "in the last decade" no HOF caliber receiver has a ring.

    Here is my point. Better talent at EVERY POSITION is good. But you have to know the relative value of different positions to build a winning team.
    For example.....I want a GREAT punter.....but everybody knows it is stupid to pay a punter like a QB.

    Wide receiver is the most overpaid position in the NFL. Paying top dollar for HOF talent is stupid, because the value is not commensurate with real wins and losses in todays NFL.
    I keep telling people......look at defensive backs.......invest there. Great ones.....most have rings. Think about it.

    Look at our playoff loss to the Pats a couple years ago.
    They handled our HOF caliber receiver receiver, and our weak secondary make their Lacross player look like Jerry Rice.

    As I said earlier we need to know what we have before calling this group better or worse.

    With that said, we dont need to panic for having lost a "great" receiver.

    Edelman and San-stonio BOTH have what Brown, Moss, AND even Gronk dont have, SB MVPs.
    ok. I sort of agree with you. just didn't know what your angle was.

    yes, you don't need a HOF caliber WR to win, but I believe they better be good enough as a group to win. I feel they are still good enough now with out antonio and with the addition of moncrief and the 2nd rd pick.

    im excited to see the ball spread around a bit more without the crying WR complaining he didn't get the ball


    and yes, getting better in the secondary will help. i've been on that train before they started to address it with top picks in the draft on that area
    Last edited by NJ-STEELER; 05-05-2019 at 02:37 PM.

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