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Thread: Ben versus Tomlin- Both deserve credit AND blame

  1. #1
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    Ben versus Tomlin- Both deserve credit AND blame

    Biggist problem is that people line up behind "their" guy and blame the other.
    The truth is that BOTH share credit and blame.

    Lets talk Ben:
    To put a majority of the Jags playoff loss on Ben is RIDICUOUS. The Steelers have NEVER SCORED MORE IN A PLAYOFF GAME. Ben made mistakes but did FAR MORE good to offset his mistakes as he broke all time team records in that game.
    He was FAR BETTER than he was in MOST playoff wins.
    Tomlins defense was HORRIBLE. His own comments show he was looking past the Jags.

    CONVERSELY, to defend Bens idiot comments or the accompanying game he blew and blamed on a teamate?
    That is the OTHER extreme.
    Ben's comments show an arrogant mindset that he does whatever he wants.
    When he throws a stupid pick, ESPECIALLY if it is not balanced by an offensive explosion it is HIS fault.....dont defend him




    Similarly with Tomlin.
    To disregard his successes WHICH ARE MANY is ridiculous. To credit BC for players like a linebacker (Harrison) he refused to play, a QB (Ben) he didnt want to draft, a corner (Ike) he had no idea how to fix, and a safety (Clarke) who was TERRIBLE under Cowher. You give Tomlin no credit taking a secondary that was in disarray and remolding IT to the number one pass defense MULTIPLE times?

    Tomlin cant coach secondary as a Steeler coach? Really?

    Do you even realize Cowher has NEVER coach the leagues number one pass defense? (source: sort pass defense rank here (https://www.pro-football-reference.c...es/CowhBi0.htm)

    Yes people.....Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake......NEVER NUMBER ONE.
    You wanna talk "Cowhers Players"? Cowhers players NEVER number one pass defense under Cowher.

    From 2000 til the Seahawks became great, there were only TWO dominant pass defenses of any duration in the NFL.
    Tomlin was the one common denominator of those defenses.

    BTW Tomlin has more number one Steeler pass defenses than ANY coach in team history INCLUDING Nolls Steel Curtain. Tomlin did it with ZERO elite cornerbacks, while Cowher and Noll had corners who are in the GOAT discussion.

    You wanna talk todays secondary......you cant make a gourmet meal out of garbage no matter the chef.



    THAT ALL SAID
    To absolve Tomlin of blame for the current state of the Steelers is ALSO ridiculous. He helped create the circus environment we see today by his pampering of elite talent. He created the monster AB is today. He DID overuse Bell (irony is Bell looks more "elite" than he is BECAUSE we overuse him with so many touches). The players blatant disrespect is terrible.

    Even Ben's comments are in part on Tomlin. Dude talkin like his picks dont matter? Publicly throwing teammates under the bus is "leadership".
    Who give Ben this mindset? Never mid Belichick, Bill Cowher sure aint going for that!
    Ben basically implied he does on the field and says whatever he wants.

    Bottom line:
    We have a borderline great QB that NEEDS to clean up the frequency of his mistakes.
    We have here a "good" not great coach who lost his way giving too much credit for players to be grownups.

    I feel like last season was a wakeup call for both.

    I also think that getting rid of the cancers, plus the lost season, empowers Tomlin to "lay down the law" to a very receptive audience of players who will be hungry to cooperate.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 04-12-2019 at 10:40 AM.

  2. #2
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    Good post.

    Not sure Tomlin is responsible for AB’s toxic behavior. Fame and money is a helluva drug. AB lasted until the 6th round due to his attitude and red flags.

    I agree with almost everything but the #1 rankings. Rankings aren’t he end all be all IMO.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh wow View Post
    Good post.

    Not sure Tomlin is responsible for AB’s toxic behavior. Fame and money is a helluva drug. AB lasted until the 6th round due to his attitude and red flags.

    I agree with almost everything but the #1 rankings. Rankings aren’t he end all be all IMO.
    Ranking arent the end all. But to take a 20 something pass defense to number one IN TWO SEASONS something Cowher never did in his career?
    Bottom line is the best Steer pass defenses since the 70's were ALL coached by Tomlin.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh wow View Post
    Good post.

    Not sure Tomlin is responsible for AB’s toxic behavior. Fame and money is a helluva drug. AB lasted until the 6th round due to his attitude and red flags.

    I agree with almost everything but the #1 rankings. Rankings aren’t he end all be all IMO.
    Also you do know (since we debated this) that I was probably THE ONLY ONE ON THIS FORUM, who did NOT want to give Brown his big money deal.

    How ya like me now?
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 04-12-2019 at 11:10 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Bottom line is the best Steer pass defenses since the 70's were ALL coached by Tomlin.
    The only "Steer" pass defense I can think of would be the University of Texas Longhorns, I suppose.
    But I don't recall Tomlin ever coaching in Austin.
    Trade 1.20, 2.52, & 2020 3rd for 1.8 or 1.9

    1.8 or 1.9 ILB Devin White
    3.66 OLB Chase Winovich
    3.83 S Amani Hooker
    4.122 TE Dawson Knox
    5.141 CB Kris Boyd
    6.175 WR Keelan Doss
    6.192 G Beau Benzschawel
    6.207 RB Kerrith Whyte
    7.219 DE Armon Watts

    or

    1.20 CB Byron Murphy
    2.52 OLB D'Andre Walker
    3.66 S Darnell Savage
    3.83 WR Miles Boykin
    4.122 ILB David Long
    5.141 C/G Ross Pierschbacher
    6.175 TE Kahele Warring
    6.192 NT Daylon Mack
    6.207 RB Devine Ozigbo
    7.219 DE Albert Huggins

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    The only "Steer" pass defense I can think of would be the University of Texas Longhorns, I suppose.
    But I don't recall Tomlin ever coaching in Austin.
    LOL.....good one

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Ranking arent the end all. But to take a 20 something pass defense to number one IN TWO SEASONS something Cowher never did in his career?
    Bottom line is the best Steer pass defenses since the 70's were ALL coached by Tomlin.
    Based on? Because our 13-3 season, on paper that regular season, it looked like we had a decent pass defense but in reality we faced only two legit QB's in Brady and Stafford..and both tore us up in yardage..

    My point is numbers can be deceiving; sometimes digging an extra layer or two tells a different tale.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (8 years after Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

  8. #8
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    One could argue the team environment Tomlin created actually enabled keeping two (maybe 3) headcases together far longer than another coach might have done.
    Gonna be real interesting how well Gruden manages MBC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    One could argue the team environment Tomlin created actually enabled keeping two (maybe 3) headcases together far longer than another coach might have done.
    Gonna be real interesting how well Gruden manages MBC.
    Created or allowed
    From the 2010-2018 season, (8 years after Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Created or allowed
    Does he get equal credit for creating vs allowing?

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