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Thread: Tomlin Gets Help

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco1981 View Post
    Rock solid? Really? I would not equate anything that happened last year as rock solid...

    Actually...Anything remotely resembling last year, Should have Tomlin being shown the door...

    It was an embarrassment of epic proportions...This will be a make-or-break year imo...

    Already HAVEN'T extended him...Got him a " special " assitant...An assistant that Tomlin says he didn't want or need...Even after an atrocious run of bad challenges...

    If you think they are going to just keep Tomlin forever, because that's the "Steeler Way"...You are mistaken because, The "Steeler Way" is not like it used to be...

    A failure again this season and it will be time for a new voice, fresh start...Because Tomlins time will have run it's course...

    But if they have a great season.....
    Boom Shacaklaka Boom........................................ Someone else telling the truth.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh wow View Post
    What’s different about the Steeler way?
    Ahhhh...Tomlin condoning an atmosphere that allows Facebook living in the lockeroom...Let's/ condones AB staying all by himself in a luxury Condo at training Camp, unlike his teammates...Let the immates run the asylum, which they overran...Then said player got mad...So mad that he constructed an elaborate plan to get himself traded ( for next to nothing ) Because the environment that he loved...He no longer loved,When the team finally had enough of his act...then TRIED to put on the tough guy act...When they let these stars do whatever the hell they wanted for years...

    Anything else?

  3. #73
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    For those of you that think everything is all fine and dandy after last year...I really don't know what to say...

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    I"m just going by what "he" said in his portion of the telecast. He said he covers them. Why are you killng the messenger? LOL
    I've been trying to talk about the message, not the messenger.

    My point has been that I tend to believe that talking heads are mostly speculating unless they specifically name their sources or at least allude to the fact that there are actual sources (although I don't usually put much weight behind the latter).

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco1981 View Post
    For those of you that think everything is all fine and dandy after last year...I really don't know what to say...
    This seems like a straw man to me. I don't think anyone is saying that "everything is fine and dandy".

    I think most of think that there are serious issues.

    I think there's a significant lack of talent / impact players on D. I think that's why we don't generate turnovers.

    I think we fumbled too much. This might be because we threw too much (fumbles happen more often on receptions) or because we went with mostly untested RBs this year (JuJu is another young player with a fumble that may have cost a game).

    I also think we have to figure out if our kicker is one of the best in the league (2 years ago) or one of the worst in the league (last year).

    Finally, I think we got screwed by a calls in 1 - 2 games this year. Even with all the other faults, we'd have been in the playoffs without bad calls in these games and who knows what the result would have been.

    Ultimately, I think that replacing the HC is unlikely to fix these issues and may cause new ones because Tomlin's performance is better than the vast majority of HCs since he's been hired. Instead, I'd rather let the front office and coaching staff work within our current framework to try to move in the right direction on these things.

    TLDR: I think that the risk of squandering the end of Ben's career is higher if we change the coach than if we keep him. That's not the same thing as thinking that everything is fine.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    hmmm..I'm not too sure on that North. There can be made an argument that because of the environment that Tomlin has fostered lead to AB being out of hand and lead to Bell thinking he's better then what he was. Environment is created by the coach.

    If your referring to the player upgrades needed on defense, well, we hired Tomlin as a secondary expert and the secondary hasn't been anything. So isn't that kinda on him? It can be argued that all the problems stem from him not being who he said he was (secondary expert; defensive coach)
    I think that AB and Bell will want money no matter where they go. I also think that seeing a friend who was about to punch a golden ticket almost paralyzed may have made them think more about the money than they would have otherwise. I wonder if this was part of the reason that Bell decided not to play under the tag after doing so the previous year.

    I don't think we hired Tomlin as a secondary expert. Just like I don't think we hired Cowher to be a defensive expert. I think Tomlin was hired because he was an up and coming coach they thought had the skills to be a good HC. I don't know what they value in HCs, but I'd imagine it would be something like: able to motivate players, manage egos, and work with other good coaches. Maybe they liked that he'd been a WR coach, and a secondary coach so he had a good understood of both sides of the ball? That would fit with Cowher too as he was also a ST coach under Marty.

    I don't think the Steelers hire HCs to be gurus of O or D. Instead they employ separate coaches to run those units and expect the HC to foster a good environment where people can collaborate and get things done.

    But, who knows. I don't have Rooney on speed dial so I'll never know.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco1981 View Post
    For those of you that think everything is all fine and dandy after last year...I really don't know what to say...
    I'm waiting to hear from Tomlin about how he's going to treat players and what are his expectations from players going forward. He has been totally silent about the atmosphere that he's fostered all these years and how it's going to be different going forward.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I've been trying to talk about the message, not the messenger.

    My point has been that I tend to believe that talking heads are mostly speculating unless they specifically name their sources or at least allude to the fact that there are actual sources (although I don't usually put much weight behind the latter).
    But North, you know that 90% of the time you can't name the source or you won't get the inside intel. To just discredit someone because you don't like what they say is "Trumpish" .
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post

    I don't think the Steelers hire HCs to be gurus of O or D. Instead they employ separate coaches to run those units and expect the HC to foster a good environment where people can collaborate and get things done.
    And here's where you and I disagree. That is exactly what a head coach is suppose to do. All the great ones did just that; set the tone and the environment. You keep excusing Tomlin from duties that all the great ones did before him. Tomlin IS responsible for the environment; Tomlin IS responsible for what will or will not be tolerated. He's that guy..or he's suppose to be. And because he wasn't is why the atmosphere was conducive for AB and Bell to act the way they acted.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. SO WHY DELAY THE INEVITABLE?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    But North, you know that 90% of the time you can't name the source or you won't get the inside intel. To just discredit someone because you don't like what they say is "Trumpish" .
    I also wouldn't believe them if they were saying something I liked.

    Other "Trumpish" things:
    - Cherry picking data (Tomlin last 8 years)
    - Ad Hominem arguments (TBW)
    - Confirmation bias: Ignoring facts they don't like and constantly talking about
    - Spotlight syndrome: thinking people care about them more then they do (consistently posting that Ruthless is on ignore)
    - Appeal to authority when the person isn't actually an authority on the subject (saying Wyche "covers the Steelers")
    - Pretending to be the victim and buying into a narrative that they're a "counter puncher"
    - Consistently building straw men
    - Moving the goal posts

    Note: this post was more about the messenger than the message. Must be because I'm guilty of thinking I'm a counter puncher too.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 04-01-2019 at 03:32 PM.

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