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Thread: Steelers sign WR Donte Moncrief on 2 year deal

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Question people. When has the number one receiver been statistically SECOND in so many stats?

    Name any great receiver.......when did it happen before receiver 1 got old?
    I can think of one possible answer Lynn Swann.....but reality is Stallworth simply proved to be a HOF level legit number one himself.

    My point. I aint worried AT ALL about Juju cause the "he got lesser coverage" garbage is just a myth.
    You dont lead a team in catches and yards over a HOFer because you are a number 2 with lesser coverage.....it doesnt happen. EVER!

    We talk about the coverage Brown had.......he has been elite FOR YEARS yet was number one by a WIDE margin. Coverage was never an issue for Brown before.
    Brown was force fed the ball plenty DESPITE coverage and his numbers dropped?

    People, his catch "percentage" was the difference. We all saw it.

    Truth? ABs game "declined" people. Seems early to be age but its possible.
    My take? His "greatness" is from having the "eye of the tiger" and he lost his edge with all his accolades.

    Neither Moncrief nor any other receiver will be as great as Brown individually.

    But Ben's force feeding him the ball hurt the team.

    Overall, Bens making better decisions, feeling no such "pressure" to feed Brown's ego WILL result in better QB play which in the end is what matters WAY more than receiver talent.
    If receiver talent mattered SO MUCH Brady would have no rings and Ben would have plenty.

    The last "elite" ego-centric receiver to get a ring.......Michael Irvin TWENTY FOUR years ago?
    Totally agree with this.
    In truth, Ben has now been freed/liberated to actually throw to whoever the open receiver is....regardless! Without having to force anything to any one receiver.
    Couple that with a powerful run game and we have a balanced offense.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (An 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. So why delay the inevitable?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  2. #222
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    Here is what Ben's top returning targets at each position contributed in the passing game last year:

    WR1 Juju Smith-Schuster: 1426 receiving yards in 16 games
    TE1 Vance McDonald: 610 receiving yards in 15 games
    RB1 James Conner: 497 receiving yards in 13 games

    That's 2533 combined receiving yards for those 3 guys alone. We are more than halfway to 5000 receiving yards with just those three. Plus, all three guys are young ascending players, not old vets on the back nine of their careers. I would imagine that it would be reasonable to assume that they are certainly each capable of this type of production again, if not more.

    No single player is going to make up for the 1297 receiving yards Antonio Brown had in 15 games last season.

    But we now have a lot of young, capable, motivated options to combine together to more than make up for the difference.

    Donte Moncrief
    James Washington
    Diontae Johnson
    Eli Rogers
    Ryan Switzer

    If Ben is able to spread the ball around like he should, each of these guys is capable of a bare minimum of 200-300 yards through the air, with the possibility of a few of them making it up to the 600-800 yards area.

    And then you add in the contributions from our depth RB's and TE's as well:

    Jaylen Samuels/Benny Snell
    Xavier Grimble/Zach Gentry

    I am confident that we'll be just fine with this fresh new group of offensive weapons...all Ben has to do is find the open man and not necessarily try to appease big egos, which often resulted in his poorest decision making.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Here is what Ben's top returning targets at each position contributed in the passing game last year:

    WR1 Juju Smith-Schuster: 1426 receiving yards in 16 games
    TE1 Vance McDonald: 610 receiving yards in 15 games
    RB1 James Conner: 497 receiving yards in 13 games

    That's 2533 combined receiving yards for those 3 guys alone. We are more than halfway to 5000 receiving yards with just those three. Plus, all three guys are young ascending players, not old vets on the back nine of their careers. I would imagine that it would be reasonable to assume that they are certainly each capable of this type of production again, if not more.

    No single player is going to make up for the 1297 receiving yards Antonio Brown had in 15 games last season.

    But we now have a lot of young, capable, motivated options to combine together to more than make up for the difference.

    Donte Moncrief
    James Washington
    Diontae Johnson
    Eli Rogers
    Ryan Switzer

    If Ben is able to spread the ball around like he should, each of these guys is capable of a bare minimum of 200-300 yards through the air, with the possibility of a few of them making it up to the 600-800 yards area.

    And then you add in the contributions from our depth RB's and TE's as well:

    Jaylen Samuels/Benny Snell
    Xavier Grimble/Zach Gentry

    I am confident that we'll be just fine with this fresh new group of offensive weapons...all Ben has to do is find the open man and not necessarily try to appease big egos, which often resulted in his poorest decision making.
    Ben had a career high 34 TDs last season with 2 thousand yard receivers.
    Dude threw 675 times to get those numbers.
    A HOF QB shoulda had 40 TDs throwing THAT much.

    I still contend that Ben's best statistical regular season was 2007.

    Ben had THIRTY TWO touchdowns in 07 in TWO THOUSAND less attempts than last season.

    Not a single Pro Bowl level receiver, but we had old Hines, young Santonio, AND Nate Washington as well as Cedrick Wilson.
    Not so much "elite" but plenty "deep".

    He "force fed" nobody that year and was killin it in efficiency.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Ben had THIRTY TWO touchdowns in 07 in TWO THOUSAND less attempts than last season.
    I think you meant TWO HUNDRED less attempts as opposed to TWO THOUSAND there.

    Actually, Ben threw the ball 675 times last season. He threw it 404 times in 2007.

    That would be precisely TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY ONE less attempts.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  5. #225
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    Nice work Ruthless and Captain.

    Let's do the moneyball thing then for kicks (Johnson excluded since he has no NFL starts):

    Assume the 5 receivers that need to make up the 2500 yes split equally (yes not likely but go with it). Using career yds/rec and catch rates here's the breakdown for each player to hit 500 yds:

    Moncrief- needs 68 targets
    Rogers - needs 71 targets
    Switz needs 87 targets
    Washington needs 87 targets (not a great catch rate last season.)

    That's >300 targets!

    Factor in Johnson and I think the Steelers made some great moneyball moves.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Question people. When has the number one receiver been statistically SECOND in so many stats?

    Name any great receiver.......when did it happen before receiver 1 got old?
    I can think of one possible answer Lynn Swann.....but reality is Stallworth simply proved to be a HOF level legit number one himself.

    My point. I aint worried AT ALL about Juju cause the "he got lesser coverage" garbage is just a myth.
    You dont lead a team in catches and yards over a HOFer because you are a number 2 with lesser coverage.....it doesnt happen. EVER!

    We talk about the coverage Brown had.......he has been elite FOR YEARS yet was number one by a WIDE margin. Coverage was never an issue for Brown before.
    Brown was force fed the ball plenty DESPITE coverage and his numbers dropped?

    People, his catch "percentage" was the difference. We all saw it.

    Truth? ABs game "declined" people. Seems early to be age but its possible.
    My take? His "greatness" is from having the "eye of the tiger" and he lost his edge with all his accolades.

    Neither Moncrief nor any other receiver will be as great as Brown individually.

    But Ben's force feeding him the ball hurt the team.

    Overall, Bens making better decisions, feeling no such "pressure" to feed Brown's ego WILL result in better QB play which in the end is what matters WAY more than receiver talent.
    If receiver talent mattered SO MUCH Brady would have no rings and Ben would have plenty.

    The last "elite" ego-centric receiver to get a ring.......Michael Irvin TWENTY FOUR years ago?
    I think your idea here is reasonable and I hope you're right.

    But it's also not the only possible explanation.

    Another potential explanation is that Ben's deep ball accuracy is declining with age. My understanding is that his percentage completions on passes that travel 15+ and 20+ yards in the air was down last year. It this is a QB issue, it might make sense that the guy who generally catches more deep balls (AB) is hurt more than the guy who catches fewer deep balls (JuJu).

    It did seem like early in the season Ben was having trouble hitting AB deep. I grant that my evidence is anecdotal and based on memory (not great in either case), but I do seem to remember Ben throwing a few uncatchable deep balls to AB that would have went for large gains or TDs.

    We also seemed to adopt an offense that (I think) threw some of the most (by # and percentage) short passes in the league.

    I'm not saying that Ben losing deep accuracy is the truth. But it is possible (especially given his age). And it seems to make as much sense as AB declining due to age.

    I think for Ben's entire career, we've assumed that he wouldn't last as long as Brady of other QBs because of the punishment he's taken (especially early in his career). I hope not, but we may be seeing the beginning of that now...

    I hope that (1) Captain Lemming is correct or that (2) if Ben is losing deep ball accuracy he can thrive in a shorter passing game. We'll see as we play the games.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Ben had a career high 34 TDs last season with 2 thousand yard receivers.
    Dude threw 675 times to get those numbers.
    A HOF QB shoulda had 40 TDs throwing THAT much.

    I still contend that Ben's best statistical regular season was 2007.

    Ben had THIRTY TWO touchdowns in 07 in TWO THOUSAND less attempts than last season.

    Not a single Pro Bowl level receiver, but we had old Hines, young Santonio, AND Nate Washington as well as Cedrick Wilson.
    Not so much "elite" but plenty "deep".

    He "force fed" nobody that year and was killin it in efficiency.
    I hope that we can go back to distributing between multiple good (but not necessarily great) targets.

    Note that the stats you're presenting here ("A HOF QB shoulda had 40 TDs throwing THAT much") might also point to Ben declining.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Question people. When has the number one receiver been statistically SECOND in so many stats?

    Name any great receiver.......when did it happen before receiver 1 got old?
    I can think of one possible answer Lynn Swann.....but reality is Stallworth simply proved to be a HOF level legit number one himself.

    My point. I aint worried AT ALL about Juju cause the "he got lesser coverage" garbage is just a myth.
    You dont lead a team in catches and yards over a HOFer because you are a number 2 with lesser coverage.....it doesnt happen. EVER!

    We talk about the coverage Brown had.......he has been elite FOR YEARS yet was number one by a WIDE margin. Coverage was never an issue for Brown before.
    Brown was force fed the ball plenty DESPITE coverage and his numbers dropped?

    People, his catch "percentage" was the difference. We all saw it.

    Truth? ABs game "declined" people. Seems early to be age but its possible.
    My take? His "greatness" is from having the "eye of the tiger" and he lost his edge with all his accolades.

    Neither Moncrief nor any other receiver will be as great as Brown individually.

    But Ben's force feeding him the ball hurt the team.

    Overall, Bens making better decisions, feeling no such "pressure" to feed Brown's ego WILL result in better QB play which in the end is what matters WAY more than receiver talent.
    If receiver talent mattered SO MUCH Brady would have no rings and Ben would have plenty.

    The last "elite" ego-centric receiver to get a ring.......Michael Irvin TWENTY FOUR years ago?
    My point wasnt that JuJu got so many catches because brown was taking all the coverage, my point was about our number 2 receiver getting looks because Brown is gone. Juju was thrown to a lot his opportunities did not diminish with Brown on the field, do you think Juju will get targeted more this season, i dont.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I think your idea here is reasonable and I hope you're right.

    But it's also not the only possible explanation.

    Another potential explanation is that Ben's deep ball accuracy is declining with age. My understanding is that his percentage completions on passes that travel 15+ and 20+ yards in the air was down last year. It this is a QB issue, it might make sense that the guy who generally catches more deep balls (AB) is hurt more than the guy who catches fewer deep balls (JuJu).

    It did seem like early in the season Ben was having trouble hitting AB deep. I grant that my evidence is anecdotal and based on memory (not great in either case), but I do seem to remember Ben throwing a few uncatchable deep balls to AB that would have went for large gains or TDs.

    We also seemed to adopt an offense that (I think) threw some of the most (by # and percentage) short passes in the league.

    I'm not saying that Ben losing deep accuracy is the truth. But it is possible (especially given his age). And it seems to make as much sense as AB declining due to age.

    I think for Ben's entire career, we've assumed that he wouldn't last as long as Brady of other QBs because of the punishment he's taken (especially early in his career). I hope not, but we may be seeing the beginning of that.
    Dang, that is a scary possibility.

  10. #230
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    JuJu even admitted its easier with Brown on the field because he got a ton of attention.

    I’m sorry, I loved the JuJu pick but I’m not as confident as some are when it comes to him being the #1 target.

    I also think JuJu thrives in the slot because he is a ferocious blocker. I hope we find ways to maximize his ability to crack down on LB’s in the running game.

    He is still the least of my worries when it comes to our passing game. Ben’s decision making and these new and young guys stepping up is the biggest concern. When JuJu is doubled can Washington get open? Who will stretch the field? Can Switzer actually turn up field and run instead of going sideways?

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