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Thread: Let's Talk Tomlin

  1. #51
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    We need to do something about Rosenhaus.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    We need to do something about Rosenhaus.
    Unfortunately, I saw last night that he signed Devin Bush. I'd take him off the draft board. Given the role that Rosenhaus undoubtedly played in this, I'd let it be known that Pittsburgh is closed as a destination to anybody that he represents.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Well, I've yet to see a guy, coach change after 12 years. He is what he is at this point.
    Didn't you watch the Steelers when Cowher was coach? You must be younger than I thought.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 03-11-2019 at 12:01 PM.

  4. #54
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    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2824880-pittsburgh-steelers-wasted-one-of-the-nfls-most-talented-trios-of-all-time

    Pittsburgh Steelers Wasted One of the NFL's Most Talented Trios of All Time

    Brad Gagnon

    The credits are rolling for the Killer B's era in Pittsburgh, and this film has a sad ending.

    When the new league year launches Wednesday, superstar Steelers will officially become a member . Not long after that, superstar running back Le'Veon Bell will sign with another team.

    The band has broken up, once again leaving 37-year-old future Hall of Fame quarterback Ben Roethlisberger as a solo artist in Allegheny County. Big Ben was there when Brown and Bell arrived in 2010 and 2013, respectively, and he remains there to wave goodbye to them in 2019.

    Now, Roethlisberger, the Steelers and their fans are left to dwell on what could have been. The Killer B's wasted a remarkable opportunity to make history, as the Steelers won just three playoff games and made just one AFC Championship Game during the six years Ben, Brown and Bell were together.
    Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown formed one of the most talented, accomplished quarterback-running back-wide receiver trios in NFL history, and certainly the most famous one since the Dallas Cowboys "triplets" from the 1990s.
    That Troy Aikman/Emmitt Smith/Michael Irvin attack won three Super Bowls in a four-year span. In 10 seasons together, they earned a combined 17 Pro Bowl nods and were first-team All-Pros on a combined five occasions.

    In just six seasons together, Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown earned a combined 13 Pro Bowl nods and were first-team All-Pros on a combined six occasions.
    In other words, excluding team accolades, an argument could be made that this trio was actually more accomplished than the legendary Dallas grouping.
    To find a QB-RB-WR trio with combined individual accolades that trump those belonging to Ben, Bell and Brown, you've gotta jump back nearly another decade for the Joe Montana-Roger Craig-Jerry Rice unit from the 1985-1990 San Francisco 49ers.

    That gang also spent exactly six seasons together, it also earned exactly 13 Pro Bowl nods, but Montana, Craig and Rice combined for nine All-Pro honors. They also teamed up for two Super Bowl wins.
    Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas and Andre Reed made a combined 16 Pro Bowls over a nine-year span, but they combined for only three All-Pro nods. Still, that Buffalo Bills team won a record four consecutive conference title games between 1990 and 1993.


    Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk and Isaac Bruce didn't have the staying power of Ben, Bell and Brown, but that trio still made two Super Bowls (and won one) during their five seasons together with the St. Louis Rams at the turn of the century.
    John Elway, Terrell Davis and Rod Smith won two Super Bowls together for the Denver Broncos, while Steve Young, Ricky Watters and Rice won a championship together in San Francisco earlier that decade.
    The point, of course, is that almost all of the great triplet-like combos have experienced immense success in the playoff win column.

    Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison—who, like Pittsburgh's trio, combined for six All-Pro honors except in a seven-year span—didn't raise a Vince Lombardi Trophy together, but Manning and Harrison did so just a year after James' 2005 departure.


    There are no legitimate active comparisons to Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown. The Atlanta Falcons, Devonta Freeman, Julio Jones, Los Angeles Charger and New Orleans Saints, Alvin Kamara, Michael Thomas) are the only other teams in the league that have sent a quarterback, a running back and a wide receiver to multiple Pro Bowls during a shared stretch in the last six years, and not one of those trios has a track record like the one dissolving in Pittsburgh.

    In fact, that Ryan-Freeman-Jones trio is the only one in the league with more than half as many combined Pro Bowl nods as Roethlisberger, Bell and Brown.


    The jury also remains out on those groupings, and that Falcons trio has at least won an NFC Championship Game.
    Meanwhile, we have a verdict on the Killer B's. Their combined individual accomplishments are extraordinary and maybe even unprecedented, depending on the metric being used. But they didn't get it done when it mattered, which is why we'll never reflect on Ben, Bell and Brown the way we look back on Aikman, Smith and Irvin, or Montana, Craig and Rice.

    Funnily enough, the largest impediment to top-heavy Pittsburgh's success during the Killer B's era was a counterpart that hasn't possessed anything resembling triplets. Tom Brady has never had an All-Pro running back, and he hasn't had an All-Pro or Pro Bowl wide receiver since 2012. But the Steelers' triplets were in the wrong place at the wrong time simply because they resided in the AFC alongside the most decorated dynasty in NFL history.
    Brady's New England Patriots cost the Steelers a first-round bye in 2014 (they lost to the Baltimore Ravens in the AFC Wild Card Round); the Pats beat the Steelers in the only AFC Championship Game of Bell's career in 2016 (it was a 36-17 blowout in Foxborough); and then they cost Pittsburgh the No. 1 seed in 2017 (the Steelers lost to the Jacksonville Jaguars.

    There's no telling what kind of damage the Steelers might have done over the last six years if not for the existence of Brady and Bill Belichick.

    It also didn't help that Bell and Brown occasionally weren't there for Ben. Not only did Bell sit out the entire 2018 campaign as a result of a contract dispute, but knee injuries also kept him off the field for back-to-back playoff runs in 2014 and 2015, and he was suspended for the first three games of the 2016 season for a violation of the league's substance-abuse policy.

    There's no telling what kind of damage the Steelers might have done over the last six years if not for the existence of Brady and Bill Belichick.
    It also didn't help that Bell and Brown occasionally weren't there for Ben. Not only did Bell sit out the entire 2018 campaign as a result of a contract dispute, but knee injuries also kept him off the field for back-to-back playoff runs in 2014 and 2015, and he was suspended for the first three games of the 2016 season for a violation of the league's substance-abuse policy.

    As this era ends in Pittsburgh, Steelers fans might wonder about an alternate reality in which Bell was more durable and he and Brown were on better terms with management—a parallel universe in which Pittsburgh paid to keep those two happy, and maybe one in which Belichick and Brady retired in 2012.

    In that world, the Killer B's are even more historically renowned, the Steelers own more than six Lombardi Trophies and Pittsburgh doesn't owe $21.1 million to rival team's No. 1 receiver.
    But hope springs eternal in the cyclical NFL, too, and there just might be a universe in which James Conner becomes better than Bell in the backfield and JuJu Smith-Schuster causes Steelers fans to forget about Brown.

    It's possible that's this universe, and that the next film will have a happier ending than the one we just watched.

    Geez, maybe it's just me.... but maybe Defense matters when it comes to championships. Maybe Character and Teamwork MATTER? Hello, Mike Tomlin? pffft maybe not....
    Last edited by Jooser; 03-11-2019 at 12:37 PM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jooser View Post
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2824880-pittsburgh-steelers-wasted-one-of-the-nfls-most-talented-trios-of-all-time



    Geez, maybe it's just me.... but maybe Defense matters when it comes to championships. Maybe Character and Teamwork MATTER? Hello, Mike Tomlin? pffft maybe not....

    adding insult to injury.....lol
    do you think rooney, colbert or tomlin are taking this public arse pounding to heart?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    Didn't you watch the Steelers when Cowher was coach? You must be younger than I thought.
    You are hilarious. I was sitting in three Rivers stadium while you were just a twinkle in your dad’s eye. LMFAO!!!
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    You are hilarious. I was sitting in three Rivers stadium while you were just a twinkle in your dad’s eye. LMFAO!!!
    Then you obviously saw a coach who was a perennial underachiever end up winning the Super Bowl.

    I really liked Cowher as a coach. I still think he was great at putting together consistently competitive teams. And I think that's super important for success because the playoffs have a significant amount of luck in every game.

    Cowher had 4 #1 seeds and in those years
    - 1992 Lost in the divisional (I guess you'd consider this success with Noll's players?)
    - 1994 Lost in the AFCC (Are these still Noll's players?)
    - 2001 Lost in the AFCC (lost at home in the AFCC with his own players, I guess)
    - 2004 Lost in the AFCC (see 2001)
    http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums...meeting/page24


    Then won the whole thing in 2005 with a QB he didn't want while trying his best to make sure he never threw the ball too much.

    Then went 8 - 8 with his players in 2006 before hanging it up due to be with his ailing wife.

    You said a coach can't change after 12 years. Bill Cowher started as the Steelers coach in 1992. He has 12 years of being an amazing regular season coach who just couldn't win that last home field playoff game. Then, he won the SB as a wild card team! You couldn't have picked a better timeline in your post!

    You probably would have fired him sometime after he got the #2 seed in 1997 and before he made the playoffs again in 2001.

    Then, you probably would have called for his job after he lost on home field in the AFCC as the #1 seed in 2001.

    If that didn't do it, you certainly would have been calling for his head after he "blew" another home AFCC home game in 2004.

    You'd probably say something like "that guy would never win a SB. His whole legacy was chocking the playoffs". "Sure, he's good in the regular season. Get's lots of #1 seeds. But I don't care about the regular season. I measure success based on what Noll did. Cowher will never win a SB, I guarantee it!"

    Of course, he won the next year.

    These are all the same kind of things you say about Tomlin.

    You also say you don't want to compare to other teams. How about comparing to Cowher's tenure as coach? If you looked at it in the same way you look at Tomlin, you would have absolutely hated Cowher for never winning the big one. Or for almost never winning the one before the big one...and then when he did make a SB in 1995, he threw down the biggest choke job in Steelers history, right?

    But, none of that mattered in 2005.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 03-11-2019 at 04:19 PM.

  8. #58
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    North, why do you keep bringing all this up?? My answers are not going to change from last week or the week before that. Listen very closely for the last time...

    Cowher only had a franchise QB the final three years of his tenure; Tomlin has had a franchise QB his entire tenure. Yet, he's won as many championships as Cowher. Which means Tomlin is inept. Because Tomlin could not win as many games with Ben as Cowher won without Ben.

    End of story my friend.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

  9. #59
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    And frankly to add to this...Big Ben had yet to become the Big Ben yet. He was in year 2 and honestly the Ben who played in Super Bowl 40 was not the same Ben who played in Super Bowl

    He needed a lot of help from that team in the form of a great D and the Bus...

    Against the Cardinals, I really think Ben was the MVP not Santonio Holmes IMHO

    Ben was in year 3 when Cowher retired, and I still think finding his HOF form.

    brothervad

    And before you chime in that Cowher held his reins back I provided stats that show he had more pass attempts in Cowher's final season and had almost 1/2 as many TD's as he did in Tomlin's first year...

    Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
    2004 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004/) 22 PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2004.htm) QB 7 14 13 13-0-0 196 295 66.4 2621 17 5.8 11 3.7 58 8.9 8.4 13.4 187.2 98.1 30 213 7.41 6.93 9.2 4 5 11
    2005 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005/) 23 PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2005.htm) QB 7 12 12 9-3-0 168 268 62.7 2385 17 6.3 9 3.4 85 8.9 8.7 14.2 198.8 98.6 23 129 7.75 7.53 7.9 2 2 11
    2006 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006/) 24 PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2006.htm) QB 7 15 15 7-8-0 280 469 59.7 3513 18 3.8 23 4.9 67 7.5 6.1 12.5 234.2 75.4 55.5 46 280 6.28 4.97 8.9 2 3 11
    2007 (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007/)* 25 PIT (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2007.htm) QB 7 15 15 10-5-0 264 404 65.3 3154 32 7.9 11 2.7 83 7.8 8.2 11.9 210.3 104.1 75.1 47 347 6.22 6.55 10.4 1 2 14

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    North, why do you keep bringing all this up?? My answers are not going to change from last week or the week before that. Listen very closely for the last time...

    Cowher only had a franchise QB the final three years of his tenure; Tomlin has had a franchise QB his entire tenure. Yet, he's won as many championships as Cowher. Which means Tomlin is inept. Because Tomlin could not win as many games with Ben as Cowher won without Ben.

    End of story my friend.
    So, you don't accept comparisons to other teams with franchise QBs because they aren't the Steelers so they don't matter.

    And you don't accept comparisons to the Steelers pre-Ben because Cowher didn't have a franchise QB.

    Do you see how that's kind of odd?

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