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Thread: 2019 Analysis: CBs

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikestops85 View Post
    Hey SM ... where did you read about that? I'd like to take a look to see what the reasoning is. Thanks.
    Let me find it. And I'll come back and post the link. But if I post it, does it matter? Because when I do, the only thing that happens around here is that the writer of the story is discredited. Doesn't matter...anything that is not to the narrative around here is dismissed. So what's the use?
    Last edited by Steel Maniac; 04-01-2019 at 01:24 PM.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Let me find it. And I'll come back and post the link. But if I post it, does it matter? Because when I do, the only thing that happens around here is that the writer of the story is discredited. Doesn't matter...anything that is not to the narrative around here is dismissed. So what's the use?
    I'd be interested in reading about the decision on Burns and whose input likely was the ultimate arbiter in the decision. I don't care who writes the article as long as they cite some type of source and it isn't complete conjecture, good journalism is good by me regardless of who is doing the writing.

    Pappy


    The referee said that you hit Brian Sipe too hard. Did you hit him too hard?
    I hit him as hard as I could - Jack Lambert

    1.20 - Devin Bush, ILB, Michigan
    3.66 - Diontae Johnson, WR, Toledo
    3.83 - Justin Layne, CB, MSU
    4.122 - Benny Snell, RB, Kentucky
    5.141 - Zach Gentry, TE, Michigan
    6.175 - Sutton Smith, OLB, Northern Illinois
    6.192 - Isaiah Buggs, DE, Alabama
    6.207 - Ulysees Gilbert III, OLB, Akron
    7.219 - Derwin Gray, OL, Maryland

  3. #23
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    There is no such thing as one particular coach's "personal hand-picked player" for this organization.

    Even the narrative that "Cowher never wanted Ben; he would have picked Shaun Andrews if Dan Rooney didn't intervene" is most likely urban myth that people just accept as truth now because they've heard it so many times.

    The team builds its consensus board with input from its football operations staff, scouting staff, coaching staff, with the ownership and administration essentially only contributing for monumental decisions that could potentially affect the organization as a whole (thankfully, the Rooneys are not trying to keep up with the Joneses when it comes to the draft room).

    The man ultimately responsible for any pick would be Kevin Colbert. Tomlin and his coaching staff certainly give their input when building the draft board and when the team is on the clock, but it's not just one man pounding his fist to declare a definitive "this is my guy and we are drafting him!" proclamation. Colbert listens to what Tomlin and his coordinators and position coaches say about their respective needs, but he also must trust what college scouting coordinator Phil Kreidler, player personnel coordinator Dan Rooney Jr., and all of their college scouts before coming to a consensus on a player. When the team drafts a future Hall of Famer, that whole staff gets to own it, not just one guy's success. And if they draft a complete and total bust with an early pick, the whole staff gets to own that mistake as well, not just one guy's failure.

    I heard this year that San Francisco is letting a fan come into their draft room to actually experience what we all have just heard rumors about (I believe he's paying something like $22K for the experience). That would be an awesome fly-on-the-wall moment to get to experience firsthand how this sausage is actually made.
    Last edited by RuthlessBurgher; 04-01-2019 at 02:24 PM.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    The team builds its consensus board with input from its football operations staff, scouting staff, coaching staff, with the ownership and administration essentially only contributing for monumental decisions that could potentially affect the organization as a whole
    That's what I've always assumed as well. I don't believe that a billion dollar enterprise enters the draft room and suddenly doesn't know how to react when Devin White is picked by another team. I assume that they cross the name off of their board and look to the next name. Speaking of Burns, I didn't buy the idea that they panicked when Jackson was taken one pick ahead of them and somehow ended up picking Burns. Did they have no plan beyond selecting Jackson? Was that their only option? We might not always agree with the next option, but I don't believe that they were not prepared for it.

    My bigger question is what do they do after they make picks every round? Do they re-evaluate their board based on the position that they selected? If they select Hakkem Butler in the first, and Myles Boykin is the top rated guy they have on their original board in the third, have they already pushed him down the board or would they consider him despite the diminished need?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    My bigger question is what do they do after they make picks every round? Do they re-evaluate their board based on the position that they selected? If they select Hakkem Butler in the first, and Myles Boykin is the top rated guy they have on their original board in the third, have they already pushed him down the board or would they consider him despite the diminished need?
    To use a somewhat parallel WR scenario, we know the team liked both Manny Sanders and Antonio Brown in the 2010 draft. But after they used their 3rd round pick on Sanders, Brown likely got pushed down their board somewhat (especially after using a 3rd round pick on Mike Wallace the previous year and a 2nd round pick in Limas Sweed the year before that). They ended up passing on Brown in the 4th, with all 3 of their picks in round 5, and their first pick in round 6, before finally realizing that the value was too great not to take Brown with their second pick in round 6 that year.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  6. #26
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    Burns is still cheap and can play ST if nothing else.

    It usually doesn't make sense to cut a early draft pick on their rookie deal.

    That said, I'd be surprised if they pick up the option after last year.

  7. #27
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    Colbert has mentioned a few times the ‘depth’ at CB and S in this draft. That is generally a sign they will add players in those positions. Is there a need for a 1st round CB? Probably not. But those 2 3rd round picks might be where someone fits.

    Safety might be the more immediate need, Burnett is gone, Davis is entering the back end of his contract....there are a couple of 1st-2nd round types that might fit and play some early..
    Early Addition Mock (3 Round Version)

    Fix the Run Defence Mode:

    1. DaRon Payne
    2. Josey Jewell
    3 Kerryon Johnson

  8. #28
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    Some folks here seem to be dead set against drafting a CB in round 1. They are scared of Colbert's history drafting corners.

    But what if both of the top ILB prospects are off the board before 20 (say, Devin White to TB at 5 and Devin Bush to CIN at 11)?

    And what if the top 6 edge rush prospects are off the board before 20 (say, Nick Bosa to SF at 2, Josh Allen to NYJ at 3, Montez Sweat to NYG at 6, Rashan Gary to DET at 8, Clellin Ferrell to GB at 12, and Brian Burns to MIA at 13)?

    Also, what if the top 3 TE prospects are off the board before 20 (say T.J. Hockenson to BUF at 9, Noah Fant to DEN at 10, and Irv Smith to TEN at 19)?

    At this point, in terms of best player available at a position of need be a corner such as Byron Murphy, Greedy Williams, or DeAndre Baker? My personal preference would be Byron Murphy of those three, but it's possible that our front office staff might prefer a different corner.

    It's not often that we would be in position to choose the #1 CB to come off the board in any draft.

    Colbert has only use a first round pick on a corner one time (Artie Burns). Before that, the last CB we pick in round 1 was Chad Scott in 1997 and Colbert did not arrive in Pittsburgh until 2000.

    Should history really scare us off using our top pick on a corner if a CB happens to be the BPA available at 20? Just because Burns didn't become a stud doesn't mean that Murphy can't become a stud in his own right.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman View Post
    Colbert has mentioned a few times the ‘depth’ at CB and S in this draft. That is generally a sign they will add players in those positions. Is there a need for a 1st round CB? Probably not. But those 2 3rd round picks might be where someone fits.

    Safety might be the more immediate need, Burnett is gone, Davis is entering the back end of his contract....there are a couple of 1st-2nd round types that might fit and play some early..
    I agree with you. And I think safety is exactly where we go in the second round. It just makes sense.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

  10. #30
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    I'm not afraid of drafting a CB due to history. Not only has the team never taken the top CB prospect, Burns was already considered a project. He was the fifth of five first round CBs, and the only one who has blossomed was the first CB (fifth overall) Jalen Ramsey. The rest of the underwhelming first rounders are Apple (10), Hargreaves (11), Jackson (24). I think Burns was a calculated gamble at the time, and hopefully the FO will not be in a position where they'd have to pull the same kind of gamble at CB.

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