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Thread: Big Ben the leader.

  1. #81
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    I wish people would/could leave politics out of a Steelers Football Forum.

  2. #82
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    FWIW, each of the articles referenced the Mike Florio article as it's source. That is the state of journalism today, very few people researching stories, most people just scrolling the net to tell you what somebody else said. In many cases there is nothing even added.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Take you pick....

    https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Board/103198/Contents/No-Tomlin-endorsement-since-the-minority-owners-want-him-fired-113828211/

    This appears to be a message board. No sources, or even reporting.

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-owners-reportedly-lobbying-art-rooney-to-fire-mike-tomlin-after-playoff-debacle/amp/

    This says that Florio was hearing some of the partners said something. Not that he heard a limited partner say something. That he talked to someone who heard a partner say something. To me, that's kind of the definition of a rumor. It's second hand information that doesn't seem to be corroborated by more than one source (and that source is unnamed). No confirmation from any of the principles is provided. Sounds like someone needed to hit a deadline or wanted to be first with an uncorroborated story on Twitter.

    https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/01/16/art-rooney-steelers-minority-owners-mike-tomlin-job-security-nfl-coaching-carousel/stories/201801160110
    that he's hearing "some of the team's limited partners intend to lobby owner Art Rooney to fire of Tomlin and to hire a new coach."
    This is now third hand reporting that it would be stupid for the Rooney's to go along if the second hand rumor Florio said he heard was true. Note: this is what I hate about modern journalism. One talking head repeats what appears to be a rumor, then other publications start to report on the other networks reporting on the rumor. The beast just feeds itself. But, the insidious thing is that this looks like corroboration. Because the PG must have heard the same rumor from different people, right? Nope, they just say "If what Florio said was true, it would be stupid to follow through on it". No need to try to verify the rumor, just churn out an article to hit a deadline...get those clicks.

    It wouldn't be so bad if sports was the only venue this happened in.


    https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/report_minority_owners_want_tomlin_fired/s1_11773_25467626

    This is another third hand report that's reporting on Florio's story about a second hand report. I don't believe that any of this was ever confirmed. No sources were ever named, and in examples where naming sources wouldn't end up with someone getting killed I tend to err on the side of it being BS (likely to meet deadlines and drive clicks).
    The yellow text above is mine.

    None of this means that it wasn't true. It just means that the reporting on it didn't show that it was true.

    I don't think there isn't anything where Florio actually talked to any of the minority owners. Only that he heard someone who reportedly heard the minority owners talking.

    A real journalist would have had that be the beginning of what would have become a story. Then, they would have asked the minority owners themselves. Or at least tried to confirm the rumor with more than one source (preferably one that had an actual name).

    Without things like that, it should be hard to believe the report...but we're all humans and I think we tend to believe things that support our biases without sufficient data.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 02-13-2019 at 06:10 PM.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    FWIW, each of the articles referenced the Mike Florio article as it's source. That is the state of journalism today, very few people researching stories, most people just scrolling the net to tell you what somebody else said. In many cases there is nothing even added.
    See, I'm way to verbose. You said the same thing as me in three sentences.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    The yellow text above is mine.

    None of this means that it wasn't true. It just means that the reporting on it didn't show that it was true.

    I don't think there isn't anything where Florio actually talked to any of the minority owners. Only that he heard someone who reportedly heard the minority owners talking.

    A real journalist would have had that be the beginning of what would have become a story. Then, they would have asked the minority owners themselves. Or at least tried to confirm the rumor with more than one source (preferably one that had an actual name).

    Without things like that, it should be hard to believe the report...but we're all humans and I think we tend to believe things that support our biases without sufficient data.


    North, please stop. Your doing upper echelon republican type stuff of waiting a few years and then saying something isn't true after it's been out of the public's eye for a while.

    It is not made up that minority owners wanted Tomlin gone. If so, Rooney would have denied it.....and he didn't. Here, please read and let's put this to bed now.

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...ayoff-debacle/

    David Tepper is more then confirmed to have asked for Tomlin to be gone. So let's stop this game. TTL is in full force; now they go to flat out denial of the truth.

    Again, there never was a denial by Rooney about this; none. And just because Florio reported it, doesn't mean it isn't true. You guys kill me with this, " If I don't like the story then I'm going to discredit who reported it " stuff. It's..well..I won't say it but needless to say it's not a good look.
    Last edited by Steel Maniac; 02-13-2019 at 07:40 PM.
    From the 2010-2018 season, (An 8 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    North, please stop. Your doing upper echelon republican type stuff of waiting a few years and then saying something isn't true after it's been out of the public's eye for a while.

    It is not made up that minority owners wanted Tomlin gone. If so, Rooney would have denied it.....and he didn't. Here, please read and let's put this to bed now.

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...ayoff-debacle/

    David Tepper is more then confirmed to have asked for Tomlin to be gone. So let's stop this game. TTL is in full force; now they go to flat out denial of the truth.

    Again, there never was a denial by Rooney about this; none. And just because Florio reported it, doesn't mean it isn't true. You guys kill me with this, " If I don't like the story then I'm going to discredit who reported it " stuff. It's..well..I won't say it but needless to say it's not a good look.
    I read that link.

    Can you please quote text that confirms anything? I don't see it.

    Notice that I'll talk about the substance of what we're talking about without calling you names.

    But I will point out your strawman. I'm not saying that it's BS because it's from Florio. I'm saying that Florio's report is a second hand account of something.

    And I don't think anyone else found a source willing to go on record or even a second anonymous source.

    That's either lazy journalism or BS IMO
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 02-14-2019 at 06:12 AM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I'd imagine no one cares who puts who on ignore.
    Please, North. Just stop...

    Once you've made your mind up about something, why bother even acknowledging any opposing viewpoints anymore?

    You can just completely silence them with the ignore function. Whee!

    For example, staunch conservatives listen only to Fox or Breitbart, pretending that any opposing viewpoint from CNN, NBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post are "fake news."
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Please, North. Just stop...

    Once you've made your mind up about something, why bother even acknowledging any opposing viewpoints anymore?

    You can just completely silence them with the ignore function. Whee!

    For example, staunch conservatives listen only to Fox or Breitbart, pretending that any opposing viewpoint from CNN, NBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post are "fake news."
    Sorry Ruthless, I can't hear you.

    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 02-14-2019 at 01:13 PM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    North, please stop. Your doing upper echelon republican type stuff of waiting a few years and then saying something isn't true after it's been out of the public's eye for a while.

    It is not made up that minority owners wanted Tomlin gone. If so, Rooney would have denied it.....and he didn't. Here, please read and let's put this to bed now.

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/s...ayoff-debacle/

    David Tepper is more then confirmed to have asked for Tomlin to be gone. So let's stop this game. TTL is in full force; now they go to flat out denial of the truth.

    Again, there never was a denial by Rooney about this; none. And just because Florio reported it, doesn't mean it isn't true. You guys kill me with this, " If I don't like the story then I'm going to discredit who reported it " stuff. It's..well..I won't say it but needless to say it's not a good look.
    Going through that link, it's interesting because they not only cite the original 2nd hand article, but their quote makes it sound stronger than it was in the original report.

    In the CBS article you linked to it says:

    "To be clear: These members of ownership, who bought into the team about a decade ago, do not have the authority to hire or fire anyone or to make any sort of management decisions. They are minority owners without a controlling interest; Florio lists "Rob Citrone, Paul Evanson, Larry Paul, Stephen Paul, Bruce Rauner, Paul Sams, John Stallworth, Benjamin Statler, Scott Swank, David Tepper, Thomas Tull, Peter Varischetti, and Mike Wilkins" as names involved."

    But the only mention of those names in Florio's article (which is at least referenced in the CBS link) is the following text:

    "The full group of Steelers’ limited partners includes Rob Citrone, Paul Evanson, Larry Paul, Stephen Paul, Bruce Rauner, Paul Sams, John Stallworh, Benjamin Statler, Scott Swank, David Tepper, Thomas Tull, Peter Varischetti, and Mike Wilkins."

    Florio's article does not say that those are the names of the people involved in the supposed complaint. Instead, he provides those names as a list of the limited partners of the Steelers.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Which one is it now?

    Does he allow the superstars like AB to get away with everything while holding other non-superstars accountable for their actions?

    Or does Tomlin now let the even lowly practice squadders get away scot free for coming late to meetings too?

    We need to keep the anti-Tomlin narratives straight here.
    Made sense to me, but I'll explain. I believe Tomlin allows the more talented players to do pretty much anything without repercussions. However, James H said anyone got away with dumb sh!t too. I really don't believe the latter.

    I like Tomlin, but imo, he isnt detailed oriented with the last few years being worse then before.

    Do you believe we didn't have the talent to win more and make the playoffs this past season Ruthless?
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