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Thread: Le'Veon Bell

  1. #591
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    My case is SO STRONG that when you guys use actual examples (Gurley) excuses (Geoff) it only makes my point.

    BTW, the Rams ALSO invested big in defense. It is what kept them in the game, or else the Pats crush them.

    If Pats don't have Gilmore....Rams win.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 07-21-2019 at 01:39 PM.

  2. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    My definition of a run first QB is one who's overall effectiveness DEPENDS on his ability to run. You can be able to run like Adrian Peterson in his prime.....but if you are also an elite passer, that is not what I mean. The "ability" to run is indeed an asset.

    Old man Randall Cunningham, lost a step and had his best all pro seasons. Not my definition. While never winning it all he was capable in my opinion.

    Mike Vick, Tim Tebow? That kid in Baltimore? Not starters without elite run skills. That is what I mean by run first.

    They ALL make the playoffs.
    They NEVER win SBs.
    Well your definition doesn't make much sense. I doubt it makes much to most people.

    QB's are drafted for their passing ability and potential to pass the ball at the pro level. As with all QB's no one knows how their over all QB skills will transition from the collegiate level to the NFL.

    The kid in Baltimore threw for 9043 yards and 69 TD's in college. He had/has a lot of potential. That's why he was drafted.

    QB's with the ability to run won Superbowls. You need to be careful when using the words never, can't, or won't.

  3. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    My case is SO STRONG that when you guys use actual examples (Gurley) excuses (Geoff) it only makes my point.

    BTW, the Rams ALSO invested big in defense. It is what kept them in the game, or else the Pats crush them.

    If Pats don't have Gilmore....Rams win.
    I hate to go back and forth with you. It seems you really don't understand the dynamics of the league.

    The Superbowl certainly didn't boil down to the Pats having Gilmore. It boiled down to Goeff having a bad game. Gilmore is only one CB among 11 players. The team couldn't have success if the other 21 didn't do their jobs.

    The Vikes invested heavily in defense too and where were they? Other teams like the Jags had top CB's and defense this year and last year. We can continue this debate until we are blue in the face. There are a lot of variables involved in the success of a team. Teams can't have everything. So they have to play with the horses they have.

    My stance will always be that there is more than one way to win games and a championship in the NFL.

    I don't like to use the words can't, won't, or never in my vocabulary when it comes to sports. As soon it you do something happens to prove you wrong. Cowher will never win a SB. Oh wait.... A 6th seed will never win a SB oh wait. The Giants can't defeat an undefeated Pats team. oh wait. A running QB will never win a SB. Oh wait Young and Wilson won them.

    Team with top CB's won SB's. Teams without top CB's won SB's. Teams with back up QB's won SB's. Whatever you said can't or won't happen CAN HAPPEN. That's where you are wrong.
    Last edited by BURGH86STEEL; 07-21-2019 at 06:00 PM.

  4. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    I hate to go back and forth with you. It seems you really don't understand the dynamics of the league.

    The Superbowl certainly didn't boil down to the Pats having Gilmore. It boiled down to Goeff having a bad game. Gilmore is only one CB among 11 players. The team couldn't have success if the other 21 didn't do their jobs.

    The Vikes invested heavily in defense too and where were they? Other teams like the Jags had top CB's and defense this year and last year. We can continue this debate until we are blue in the face. There are a lot of variables involved in the success of a team. Teams can't have everything. So they have to play with the horses they have.

    My stance will always be that there is more than one way to win games and a championship in the NFL.

    I don't like to use the words can't, won't, or never in my vocabulary when it comes to sports. As soon it you do something happens to prove you wrong. Cowher will never win a SB. Oh wait.... A 6th seed will never win a SB oh wait. The Giants can't defeat an undefeated Pats team. oh wait. A running QB will never win a SB. Oh wait Young and Wilson won them.

    Team with top CB's won SB's. Teams without top CB's won SB's. Teams with back up QB's won SB's. Whatever you said can't or won't happen CAN HAPPEN. That's where you are wrong.
    I wouldn't consider Young and Wilson " running " QB's ...They were/ are both great passers also

  5. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco1981 View Post
    I wouldn't consider Young and Wilson " running " QB's ...They were/ are both great passers also
    Through out the history of the league there have been great QB's and bad QB's from the mobile and non mobile categories. Mobile QB's can pass, run, help teams win games, and win the Superbowl.

    Steve Young was a mobile QB. Anyone who watched him would know that. Wilson is a mobile QB. He helped Seattle win the Supberbowl.

    Several other mobile QB's help their teams win games, made the playoffs, and played in the Supberbowl. A few mobile QB's helped their teams win Superbowls.

    I am not sure why people want to make this ish so complicated?
    Last edited by BURGH86STEEL; 07-21-2019 at 10:16 PM.

  6. #596
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    I agree there is a difference between running qb’s and mobile qb’s.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (An 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. So why delay the inevitable?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  7. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    Through out the history of the league there have been great QB's and bad QB's from the mobile and non mobile categories. Mobile QB's can pass, run, help teams win games, and win the Superbowl.

    Steve Young was a mobile QB. Anyone who watched him would know that. Wilson is a mobile QB. He helped Seattle win the Supberbowl.

    Several other mobile QB's help their teams win games, made the playoffs, and played in the Supberbowl. A few mobile QB's helped their teams win Superbowls.

    I am not sure why people want to make this ish so complicated?
    It is NOT complicated.
    You just make it complicated by “reading” what I am not “saying”

    Steve Young? I TOLD YOU I am not talking about mobile QBs who were great passers.

    AGAIN- A QB could run like Gayle Sayers, Barry Sanders, and Walter Peyton rolled into one....If he is an elite passer.....I ain’t talking about him.

    Nobody Disparaged “mobile” QBs. Do a search of this thread,
    I said “run first”.
    You asked me to explain what I meant and I did.

    I said what I mean is a QB who’s effectiveness depends on running.

    Steve Young is an elite PASSER who is also happened to be mobile.
    Steve Young won SIX PASSING titles!!!!!
    Russell Wilson has a better PASSER rating than Ben.

    Run first QB’s?
    Tim Tebow was a FORTY SEVEN percent passer. Without his ability to get 600 yards rushing.....he was a SCRUB. Heck he was a scrub despite his running ability.
    Mike Vick.....NEVER STARTS were it not for his elite run skills

    Is it that they aren’t capable of completing a pass? No. But they are subpar passers at the NFL level.

  8. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Run first QB’s?
    Tim Tebow was a FORTY SEVEN percent passer. Without his ability to get 600 yards rushing.....he was a SCRUB. Heck he was a scrub despite his running ability.
    Mike Vick.....NEVER STARTS were it not for his elite run skills

    Is it that they aren’t capable of completing a pass? No. But they are subpar passers at the NFL level.
    I would never want a run first QB as my starter. like you said, they might get you into the playoffs but it's almost impossible to win a Super Bowl with one.

  9. #599
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    Well your definition doesn't make much sense. I doubt it makes much to most people.
    When it seems someone is not “making sense” the issue might be:
    1. One persons ability to communicate clearly
    2. The other persons ability to “comprehend”.

    Considering you think I am talking about “mobile” QBs which I never said, and Steve Young who I EXPLAINED CLEARLY is not a “run first” QB but rather an elite passer who can run, I’d say “comprehension” is the problem here.

    You need to be careful when using the words never, can't, or won't.
    I am careful is what I “say”.
    I suggest you be more “careful” when reading.
    Did I say, “the words never, can't, or won't?”

    I use the expression “don't” because it “does not” happen.
    The terms “never, can't, or won't” are strong future tense expressions.

    For example last year I could accurately say Japanese guys “don’t” play in the NBA. A Japanese guy was just drafted. My prior statement was not wrong because the word “don’t” is not a future tense word.

    That would be different than saying it will “never” or “won’t” happen.

    I cant say anything is “impossible”. I can suggest it is “unlikely” based on history.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 07-22-2019 at 02:51 AM.

  10. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    I hate to go back and forth with you. It seems you really don't understand the dynamics of the league.

    The Superbowl certainly didn't boil down to the Pats having Gilmore. It boiled down to Goeff having a bad game. Gilmore is only one CB among 11 players. The team couldn't have success if the other 21 didn't do their jobs.
    Did I suggest the other guys didn’t do their jobs? All I’m saying is that Gilmore was the difference maker.

    The Vikes invested heavily in defense too and where were they? Other teams like the Jags had top CB's and defense this year and last year. We can continue this debate until we are blue in the face. There are a lot of variables involved in the success of a team. Teams can't have everything. So they have to play with the horses they have.

    I have said many times....franchise QB plus elite secondary play are the combination. Those teams were missing the other piece. Go cheap elsewhere to build those parts....it works.

    My stance will always be that there is more than one way to win games and a championship in the NFL.
    True.....Eagles were a RARE exception to my statement above.

    Team with top CB's won SB's. Teams without top CB's won SB's. Teams with back up QB's won SB's. Whatever you said can't or won't happen CAN HAPPEN. That's where you are wrong.
    Really? Sure it CAN happen. Smart teams do what makes it LIKELY.

    Example:
    You are correct, backup QBs HAVE won SBs. Eagles just did it.
    Why not just dump Ben?

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