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Thread: Le'Veon Bell

  1. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Try this exercise by contrast.
    Steelers
    Patriots
    Colts
    Ravens
    Broncos
    Seahawks
    Buccaneers
    Even the Saints

    Name the best DB on those teams, since 2000.......think about it, how many rings.....THAT is money well spent.

    You wanna know why the “evil genius” pursues elite DB talent and is cheap as heck when paying backs and receivers?

    The most underrated piece of the
    Pats success is that they are the only team that has mastered:


    Not just the Pats, look at the Eagles who won, the Broncos who won, Seahawks when they won, just to name a few. These are facts. Not opinions. I wish there were other ways of getting to and winning Super Bowls but this is how it's getting done now. Thankfully, I see us now heading toward that path as well. Focussing on our defense because our offense is fine.
    From the 2010-2019 season, (An 9 year period that the majority of Cowher's players & coaches had left) Mike Tomlin has only won 3 playoff games. And two of those wins were against back up Quarterbacks. Our history has been defined by what we do in the postseason; not the regular season.

    My official proclamation: WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER SUPER BOWL WITH MIKE TOMLIN AS OUR HEAD COACH. So why delay the inevitable?

    FIRE MIKE TOMLIN

  2. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Maniac View Post
    Not just the Pats, look at the Eagles who won, the Broncos who won, Seahawks when they won, just to name a few. These are facts. Not opinions. I wish there were other ways of getting to and winning Super Bowls but this is how it's getting done now. Thankfully, I see us now heading toward that path as well. Focussing on our defense because our offense is fine.
    Eagles are among the few without top DB talent, but look a the cheap backs they had.

    We give a massive one year check to Bell, Brown among the highest paid receivers......and here they pick up Blount for free, Ajayi for a ham sandwich, pay them what Bell can afford to tip his help as he raps complaining he is underpaid.

    Not only did the Eagles win the SB, THEY ARE A DEMONSTRABLY BETTER RUNNING TEAM BY EVERY CONCEIVABLE MEASURE with backs any team in the league could have gotten.

    Think about it. Blount has 3 rings on 2 teams, COMBINE WHAT HE MADE IN ALL THOSE SEASONS......less than half than what we paid Bell for one year to whine about being under appreciated.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 07-19-2019 at 10:41 AM.

  3. #563
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    Too many variables involved to attribute a SB to one or two skill positions.

    injury, turnovers, in game adjustments, timely penalties or uncalled penalties all play a part.

  4. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    In “recent” seasons what has been the trend? Sure historically you are correct. The 90s, the Cowboys are the opposite of what I promote and had great success. Lately? Not so much. Last team dominated by high paid elite skill players to win it all is the Rams. Juju was in kindergarten when it happened.

    Look at this RB list of future HOF locks QBs as examples, there are 4 with multiple rings.

    1. Ben played an elite starter in Bell- Parker started SB victories.
    2. Eli played with the best RB in Giants history (Tiki Barber). He has 2 rings.......after the elite back was gone.
    3. Peyton’s most prolific back was Edgerin James but has 2 rings with bums at the position.
    4. Brady has as many rings as the other 3 combined and has never paid top dollar for an elite back.

    The only one of the bunch with a ring paying elite money to a skill player is Peyton with M. Harrison.
    I would suggest Bob Sanders was MUCH more key to that ring than Marvin was.
    I am not sure why you want to pigeon hole yourself into a certain philosophy? Trends and philosophies change over time in the NFL for various reasons.

    Teams have to pay to keep and acquire talent on both sides of the ball. Time has proven that more than one philosophy can be successful to win games in the NFL.

    Paying top skill positions wins games in the NFL. Paying players top money wins Superbowls. Not paying players top money wins Superbowls. There's more than one way to WIN in the NFL based on different variables. It's one reason why the NFL is such a great game.

    Teams with highly paid skilled position players won a lot of games and had opportunities to win Superbowls. Those teams came up short for different reasons in recent years. Just because those teams came up short shouldn't diminish the value of those skill position players.
    Last edited by BURGH86STEEL; 07-19-2019 at 01:41 PM.

  5. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Try this exercise by contrast.
    Steelers
    Patriots
    Colts
    Ravens
    Broncos
    Seahawks
    Buccaneers
    Even the Saints

    Name the best DB on those recent teams.......Think about it, how many rings.....THAT is money well spent.

    You wanna know why the “evil genius” pursues elite DB talent and is cheap as heck when paying backs and receivers?

    People, it ain’t a coincidence that the Pats NEVER PAY those positions. I laughed when people “feared” Bell would wind up there. The Pats would NEVER pay either Bell or Brown.

    They see the pattern, not just with them, but league wide.

    The most underrated piece of the Pats success is that they are the only team that has mastered:


    Time will tell how that philosophy plays out if BB stays around once Brady retires.

  6. #566
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    The NFL is a copycat league. Look at the championship teams and try to re-create those winning situations. That's fine when you can do it. But sometimes it's just not possible.

    Can we win like the Seahawks or Eagles won? No, our franchise QB is not playing on a rookie contract.

    Can we win like New England wins? No, our franchise QB is not willing to accept a contract worth a fraction of what he could make on the open market because he has a supermodel wife that brings in $30M/yr herself (Seriously...Tom Brady's average yearly salary is less than every starting non-rookie-contract QB except for Andy Freaking Dalton...he's literally the 18th highest paid QB in the league right now even if he is the winningest QB of all time).

    It situations like this, sometimes you have to zig when other teams zag. When the 4-3 defense is en vogue, decide to run a 3-4 instead to capitalize on undervalued tweeners that don't necessarily fit neatly in the predominant 4-3 looks. When teams are building their defenses with smaller, faster athletes to counter wide open spread offenses, bring out a power I formation with a lead blocking FB to smash it.

    There is certainly more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes it's best to look at what has been successful recently and try to do it just like that. Sometimes it's best to look at what has been successful recently and try to counter it with the opposite strategies. The best option to me seems to try to be as flexible as possible as times inevitably change. I'm hopeful that our front office has supplied with some versatile chess pieces to counter whatever the opposition throws at us.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  7. #567
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    I am not sure why you want to pigeon hole yourself into a certain philosophy?
    Because the philosophy of paying big bucks to receivers and backs does not win championships.

    Trends and philosophies change over time in the NFL for various reasons.
    True. But this is not a "trend". MOST TEAMS still overvalue receivers and many teams overvalue backs. My philosophy is not the norm but the facts are undeniable.

    As far as I can tell only the Pats are of that philosophy, to the extent I suggest.

    For example clearly our Steelers were WILLING to pay top dollar for backs and receivers when we won SBs. They just never had to and reaped the benefits. We like most teams overpaid when we had to to keep our talent.

    Teams have to pay to keep and acquire talent on both sides of the ball.
    Not really. Save for QB, there is zero evidence that paying top dollar to offensive players is advantageous in the pursuit of a championship in today's NFL.

    Time has proven that more than one philosophy can be successful to win games in the NFL
    .

    If you are talking decades....sure. Within an era, certain philosophies are better than others.

    Paying top skill positions wins games in the NFL. Paying players top money wins Superbowls. Not paying players top money wins Superbowls. There's more than one way to WIN in the NFL based on different variables. It's one reason why the NFL is such a great game.

    Teams with highly paid skilled position players won a lot of games and had opportunities to win Superbowls. Those teams came up short for different reasons in recent years. Just because those teams came up short shouldn't diminish the value of those skill position players.
    Sounds good. But I give historical FACT to my POV.

    You need "good enough" receivers and backs as oppose to great high dollar players.

    It is NOT a trend, not what everyone is doing.

    But it IS what is working.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 07-19-2019 at 06:12 PM.

  8. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    Time will tell how that philosophy plays out if BB stays around once Brady retires.
    I don't think it's so much Brady, but Ernie Adams who will determine whether BB stays around. If/when Ernie goes, BB will shortly follow.

  9. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Try this exercise by contrast.
    Steelers
    Patriots
    Colts
    Ravens
    Broncos
    Seahawks
    Buccaneers
    Even the Saints

    Name the best DB on those recent teams.......Think about it, how many rings.....THAT is money well spent.

    You wanna know why the “evil genius” pursues elite DB talent and is cheap as heck when paying backs and receivers?

    People, it ain’t a coincidence that the Pats NEVER PAY those positions. I laughed when people “feared” Bell would wind up there. The Pats would NEVER pay either Bell or Brown.

    They see the pattern, not just with them, but league wide.

    The most underrated piece of the Pats success is that they are the only team that has mastered:


    I think it would be interesting to see what recent SB winners paid their QBs in terms of cap percentage.

    I think Ben's new deal puts him at 20% of the cap.

    For comparison, Brady made $15M last year (8.5%) and the highest paid player in the SB was Aaron Donald at $22.5M (12.7%).
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/01/the-...tom-brady.html

    I wonder if those numbers don't include bonuses?

    Either way, there has to be a number that's too high for the QB because you need a team around him. Maybe Manning or Breese were close to Ben's number when they won?

    I think our window with Ben is almost closed because he gets so much of the cap. That's why it sucked to lose 50 and Bell. I think we lost our last best chance...but maybe we get lucky.

    I wonder if the future is to Bill B away even great QBs on their 3rd contracts. Or hope you get a guy like Brady who cares more about winning than being paid close to what he's worth.
    Last edited by Northern_Blitz; 07-20-2019 at 03:37 AM.

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern_Blitz View Post
    I think it would be interesting to see what recent SB winners paid their QBs in terms of cap percentage.

    I think Ben's new deal puts him at 20% of the cap.

    For comparison, Brady will made $15M last year (8.5%) and the highest paid player in the SB was Aaron Donald at $22.5M (12.7%).
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/01/the-...tom-brady.html

    I wonder if those numbers don't include bonuses?

    Either way, there has to be a number that's too high for the QB because you need a team around him. Maybe Manning or Breese were close to those Ben's number when they won?

    I think our window with Ben is almost closed because he gets so much of the cap. That's why it sucked to lose 50 and Bell. I think we lost our last best chance...but maybe we get lucky.

    I wonder if the future is to Bill B away even great QBs on their 3rd contracts. Or hope you get a guy like Brady who cares more about winning than being paid close to what he's worth.
    Brady has a side business deal with the Pats ownership in which he gets compensation. He probably be receiving compensations well after he is retired.

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