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Thread: Haley, Ben, or both?

  1. #21
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    I think Andrew Luck is propped up by the media way too much.

    However, I don't think anyone is talking about completions and incompletio,s when criticizing Ben's QB acumen. I think it's more so time mismanagement and taking 8 or 9 years to check down effectively.

    I think Peyton Manning has the best IQ in the game... but this,doesn't mean he isn't a choker in the playoffs and doesn't make bad throws.

    I get it, Ben is your guy and you don't think he has any flaws in his game.

    I also think Shaq had a low basketball IQ but he is still one of the best centers to ever play in the NBA.
    Last edited by feltdizz; 09-13-2015 at 03:31 PM.
    I lost a bet about Najee gaining 1300 yards.

    "Our head coach has failed to win a playoff game for seven years in a row. His game day strategy, culture of divas, in game decisions, clock management, player evaluation, hires, and affinity with sub par starters at RB, P, and OL are holding the Steelers back. That standard remains the standard"



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    I get it, Ben is your guy and you don't think he has any flaws in his game.
    No, you clearly don't get it. I've literally never, anywhere, said that Roethlisberger is perfect. All I've said is that most of these other QBs that you and all the other phony-ass, self-appointed connoisseurs of QBing put on a pedestal above him are no better than him, not even mentally. There are only three QBs in the NFL who have consistently demonstrated more football acumen than Roethlisberger: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. End of list. If Roethlisberger's football intelligence was subpar, then he never would have improved his game in any way. He'd be the same QB he was in 2007, 2008, 2009. Meanwhile, I've read Peter King saying that no other QB in the NFL has evolved as much in the last five years as Roethlisberger has; and I've read Greg Cosell, who watches game film for a living, saying that his pocket passing skills are a shockingly underrated aspect of his game. Roethlisberger's INT percentage has gone nowhere but down since 2009, and his sack percentage has gone nowhere but down since 2010, and people still want to act like he has a learning deficit? If anything, the fact that his style of play has changed so radically in recent years proves that there was a teaching deficit, if anything. Face it; QBs who are "kinda dumb" don't change their style of play as radically as Roethlisberger did between 2011 and 2014. They just don't. If you disagree, then you are wrong (again).
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBR96A View Post
    No, you clearly don't get it. I've literally never, anywhere, said that Roethlisberger is perfect. All I've said is that most of these other QBs that you and all the other phony-ass, self-appointed connoisseurs of QBing put on a pedestal above him are no better than him, not even mentally. There are only three QBs in the NFL who have consistently demonstrated more football acumen than Roethlisberger: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. End of list. If Roethlisberger's football intelligence was subpar, then he never would have improved his game in any way. He'd be the same QB he was in 2007, 2008, 2009. Meanwhile, I've read Peter King saying that no other QB in the NFL has evolved as much in the last five years as Roethlisberger has; and I've read Greg Cosell, who watches game film for a living, saying that his pocket passing skills are a shockingly underrated aspect of his game. Roethlisberger's INT percentage has gone nowhere but down since 2009, and his sack percentage has gone nowhere but down since 2010, and people still want to act like he has a learning deficit? If anything, the fact that his style of play has changed so radically in recent years proves that there was a teaching deficit, if anything. Face it; QBs who are "kinda dumb" don't change their style of play as radically as Roethlisberger did between 2011 and 2014. They just don't. If you disagree, then you are wrong (again).
    you sound mad

    first off, i,never put out a list of who was smarter and even if I did... it doesn't mean they are "better" than Ben. Ben has more talent than 99% of QB's in the NFL, but that doesn't mean he has a better IQ at the position than some of those other QB's.

    You can try and spin it like Ben had this desire to change his game but we forced him to change by firing his OC. Ben didn't wake up one day and start checking down... he woke up one day and found out his OC was fired because they refused to check down and change their philosophy on offense. If it was up to Ben he would still be a vertical offense with BA because Ben always believed they were close to turning a corner and becoming explosive when it was obvious we were feast or famine and needed a top 5 D to save their behinds.

    Ben is a top 5 QB and a future HOF. I think your emotions are getting the best of you because you think a few people saying Ben isn't one of the smarter QB's means he isn't one of the best.
    Last edited by feltdizz; 09-13-2015 at 04:58 PM.
    I lost a bet about Najee gaining 1300 yards.

    "Our head coach has failed to win a playoff game for seven years in a row. His game day strategy, culture of divas, in game decisions, clock management, player evaluation, hires, and affinity with sub par starters at RB, P, and OL are holding the Steelers back. That standard remains the standard"



  4. #24
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    Ben, Haley, and Tomlin get crucified for time management skills and situational awareness. What about Eli, McAdoo, and Coughlin, calling for a goalline pass near the end of the SNF game tonight? Running the ball would have given the ball to Dallas with less than a minute and no timeouts instead of a full minute and a half. If Eli was the cerebral QB everyone thinks he is (and assumes Ben is not), he takes the sack there when everyone is covered, since it's still a chip shot FG to go up 6 and the clock continues to run.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    You can try and spin it like Ben had this desire to change his game but we forced him to change by firing his OC. Ben didn't wake up one day and start checking down... he woke up one day and found out his OC was fired because they refused to check down and change their philosophy on offense.
    If Roethlisberger had no desire to change, then he never would have changed, regardless of who the offensive coordinator was. Nobody can force another person to learn anything if they don't want to learn, period. The fact that Roethlisberger's style of play changed so radically from one offensive coordinator to the next illustrates a desire, by him, to change. He's made liars out of everybody who's ever accused him of being uncoachable. Furthermore, the fact that his style of play changed so radically in such a short period of time illustrates that he's a lot more savvy at what he does than you or any of the other QB snobs have ever given him credit for. QBs who are "pretty dumb" don't change their style of play so completely or quickly. QBs who "aren't that smart" don't average 51 pass attempts per INT over the course of five years. The reason Roethlisberger never reached his potential under Bruce Arians is because Arians never taught him properly. Todd Haley didn't just sprinkle magic checkdown dust on him to make him get rid of the ball quicker. People who change, change themselves, just as Roethlisberger has.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBR96A View Post
    Todd Haley didn't just sprinkle magic checkdown dust on him to make him get rid of the ball quicker. People who change, change themselves, just as Roethlisberger has.
    yeah.. i disagree with this statement. If Ben changed himself he would have done it before Arians was fired.

    He had help and that's OK.
    I lost a bet about Najee gaining 1300 yards.

    "Our head coach has failed to win a playoff game for seven years in a row. His game day strategy, culture of divas, in game decisions, clock management, player evaluation, hires, and affinity with sub par starters at RB, P, and OL are holding the Steelers back. That standard remains the standard"



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Ben, Haley, and Tomlin get crucified for time management skills and situational awareness. What about Eli, McAdoo, and Coughlin, calling for a goalline pass near the end of the SNF game tonight? Running the ball would have given the ball to Dallas with less than a minute and no timeouts instead of a full minute and a half. If Eli was the cerebral QB everyone thinks he is (and assumes Ben is not), he takes the sack there when everyone is covered, since it's still a chip shot FG to go up 6 and the clock continues to run.
    I don't know anyone who thinks Eli is cerebral..lol. Not one person.

    They are getting crucified over this decision.
    I lost a bet about Najee gaining 1300 yards.

    "Our head coach has failed to win a playoff game for seven years in a row. His game day strategy, culture of divas, in game decisions, clock management, player evaluation, hires, and affinity with sub par starters at RB, P, and OL are holding the Steelers back. That standard remains the standard"



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Ben, Haley, and Tomlin get crucified for time management skills and situational awareness. What about Eli, McAdoo, and Coughlin, calling for a goalline pass near the end of the SNF game tonight? Running the ball would have given the ball to Dallas with less than a minute and no timeouts instead of a full minute and a half. If Eli was the cerebral QB everyone thinks he is (and assumes Ben is not), he takes the sack there when everyone is covered, since it's still a chip shot FG to go up 6 and the clock continues to run.
    Agreed, that was awful, but it's not a zero sum game. Ben still exhibits poor situational awareness.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    yeah.. i disagree with this statement. If Ben changed himself he would have done it before Arians was fired.

    He had help and that's OK.
    And if he didn't want to change, then there's nothing Todd Haley could have done. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
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    Pittsburgh, PA: City of Champions.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    I don't know anyone who thinks Eli is cerebral..lol. Not one person.

    They are getting crucified over this decision.
    Well, Eli's a Manning, and Mannings tend to be thought of as cerebral QB's in general (at least more cerebral than ol' lunkhead Roethlisbergers anyways).

    I realize now that the Giants are getting crucified for this, but I wrote this last night as the game was ending, so I hadn't had the opportunity to see any of the media backlash yet.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

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