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Thread: Great article on Lebeau defense and why it no longer works!!!!!

  1. #141
    Hall of Famer DukieBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Why thank you Dukie...I mean if Flippy is voice of reason here...we are all screwed.
    We are all screwed anyway So why not make a positive experience out of it? I still like Mr Lebeau and his defense, 15 yd cushion and aged-out stalwarts not withstanding. I think our pass rush will be better this year, and also our run defense.



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  2. #142
    Hall of Famer DukieBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discipline of Steel View Post
    Id rather not get run all over like we did last season
    Yes! We had little control of the LOS on D last year (not much better on O, either, which maked Ben's performance even move impressive). Dominating the LOS like we used to do is much needed.



    Never argue with stupid people.
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    and then sick beat you with their experience.




  3. #143
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    This is obviously a fan article... not expert analysis. I mean, there may be nuggets of truth in there, but e.g. James Harrison is not a viable option anymore. The writer correctly states that he cannot run anymore (which is 100% right), and thinks that is acceptable? You HAVE TO be able to run! Three years ago, we played the Texans and they ran ALL OVER US one game. It was largely because our defenders were too slow, causing gaping holes.

    BTW, our turnover (lack of) problem is DUE to our lack of speed. Nothing else. I'm not saying Jarvis is speedy because he isn't. And I'm still in the jury-is-out boat on him. BUT, he is clearly a better option than an old, slow James Harrison. If Chris Carter was the option, then yeah--I'd be saying sign Harrison.
    Guys and gals,
    If you play fantasy football, go to the FF forum here and read my thread. I'd appreciate some feedback on it.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Pedigree does not equal talent...

    Example: Ziggy Hood had a first round pedigree...
    Playing out of his natural position. He is doing fine in J-ville.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikestops85 View Post
    Where do you get these ideas? Our defensive philosophy is NOT rocket science. A player can only do 5 things ... attack, drop back, move right, move left or hold your ground. Hopefully you can understand this without too much trouble. It's not too complicated yet now, is it? They use the defensive play called and their keys to figure out which of those 5 things to do. That does take some thought but I don't think it requires you to have the intellect of a brain surgeon. The faster they get off on the snap and read the keys correctly the more successful the player and defense as a whole will be.

    It takes athletic talent and some brains to excel playing defense. People with more intellect can make up for having less athletic talent. It's a give and take. All DCs have some complexity in their defense ... not just LeBeau. The reads might have gotten more complicated over the years but that's because the offense has gotten more complicated and the defense has to react. For a defense to be successful you need talent, something which has dropped off on the Steelers D in recent years, and the DC has to have you in the right defense for the offensive play called. Now, if you feel LeBeau is putting the defense in the wrong coverage too often then blame away but give up the crap about his defense being too complex for young players. All defenses require a learning curve for younger players.

    Now on to something you said which I feel is really stupid.

    That this 3-4 does not rely (I assume you meant rely and not really) on the DL winning battles. This is complete and utter BS. Please, please, please give me one quote where LeBeau states that defensive linemen aren't supposed to rush the passer on pass plays ... because that is what you are saying. What, did Aaron Smith get yelled at for the sacks he had? That has got to be one of the craziest statements I've ever read on this site ... and remember, Crash posts here so that is saying something. The D linemen are obviously (to most football fans) supposed to attack the QB on pass plays. They are also supposed to stay in their rush lanes and contain the QB. About the only time a D lineman on any team might try to do what you are suggesting is when they stunt. Then they try and take a particular blocker with them to open up hole for another defender to run through. Of course that is a staple of every frick'in defense in the National Football League.

    I think you need to get some popcorn, a drink and watch games on Sunday afternoons for the next year. Maybe you'll learn something.
    This is all above your head, hence you can't grasp it. OF COURSE the DL rush the passer on passing downs, but they virtually NEVER get there, so there must be a reason. In a 3-4 your DL are to clog things up so the LBs can make plays. What's the most sacks a DLman has got for us since Lubaae has been back? Why such a low number? Look, you are so far removed from getting it, there is no sense in even attempting to teach you. Pour another drink and keep pretending you understand football. You will be happier that way.

  6. #146
    So is the proportion of sacks by the DL in the Steelers 3-4 lower than in 3-4s used by other teams? Has it been lower for the last few years than in 2005 and 2008? Please note I said "proportion", not absolute numbers. Anyone care to look it up? I don't care, just asking.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinCole View Post
    So is the proportion of sacks by the DL in the Steelers 3-4 lower than in 3-4s used by other teams? Has it been lower for the last few years than in 2005 and 2008? Please note I said "proportion", not absolute numbers. Anyone care to look it up? I don't care, just asking.
    I do recall seeing other 3-4 systems where DL got to the QB more. As far as having #s, no, don't have any and not important enough to look up.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    The way you beat teams who like to pass is obviously by getting to the QB. This is not rocket science. But, valid points are being made. We seen it years ago that when the teams like the Pats spread the Steelers out...they neutralized us. It caught on, and the Steelers have never been quite a dominating on D since...despite some gaudy D stats. The D hasn't passed the eye test. Passing teams have been able to pass on us for years. The 3-4 in it's classic form is dead...where DLmen occupy blockers and linebackers rush. Why? Because all you have to do is spread them out. Solution? Remember the season where the Pats were undefeated and the Giants came in and slapped Brady around? They did it because they had an impressive front 4. I don't care if the Steelers run a 3-4, 4-3. or a 5-2. What matters is can your DLmen beat the guy across from them? The reason the Steelers struggle is because they have ONE...and only ONE DLman who can win one or one battles...and that's Heyward.
    Sure, when you look at historical Steelers defenses the pass defense looks sad.

    But until you watch other team's defenses, you can't really judge this one.

    Since 2008, the Steelers defense:

    4th best in opposing QB pass % completion: 57.6%
    7th best in opposing # of completions: 1,900

    and.... wait for it:

    #1 in fewest passing yards allowed: 18,643

    The fact is all defenses are looking horrid against the pass because that is what the league wants. The days of Mel Blount flattening WRs are over. Gotta start getting used to the 'tackle the catch' defense of today.


    Edit:

    #1 in fewest TDs allowed by passing....
    Last edited by NorthCoast; 08-31-2014 at 09:03 PM.

  9. #149
    Hall of Famer ikestops85's Avatar
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    What the LeBeau naysayers will throw out there, NC, is your statistics mean nothing. LeBeau's system doesn't pass the "eye test". Whatever the hell that is. Personally I think they need glasses.
    <a href=http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2011/02/roger-goodell.jpg target=_blank>http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2...er-goodell.jpg</a>

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikestops85 View Post
    What the LeBeau naysayers will throw out there, NC, is your statistics mean nothing. LeBeau's system doesn't pass the "eye test". Whatever the hell that is. Personally I think they need glasses.

    Ahh yes. The 'eye test'. The eye test relative to what is the question? Steelers defenses of the past? Invalid. Rules have changed dramatically in the last 3 years. This year will only get worse with the non-contact rules on WRs.

    The 2008 Steelers defense is arguably one of the greatest of all time. If you use that as the measuring stick it will make all other Steeler defenses look lacking.
    Last edited by NorthCoast; 08-31-2014 at 10:53 PM.

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