Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 150

Thread: Great article on Lebeau defense and why it no longer works!!!!!

  1. #121
    I think the fall off of the defense has happened for multiple reasons. Philosophy, scheme, personnel.

    Stop the run and create 3rd and long for an all out ambush don't work anymore.

    You have to field enough DL (3 at least) who can keep OL off the LB's while maintaining their gap integrity, pushing the pocket when pass is recognized.

    If you're going to rush the passer, you need to take away the 2 second passes. Extremely soft coverage will negate pass rush. Tighten up and force attempts at deeper routes.

    We've had people in place, in the past, who could make up for other negatives because they were "that good". Those people are gone. I think there is talent there now, it just has to be used properly. Keep Shazier clean. Use more DE OLB twists to create mismatches. Keep the NT on the field and use Shazier more like a hybrid safety on passing downs. Don't get stuck by a no huddle offense with 2 DL on the field.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by WVSteelerfan View Post
    I think the fall off of the defense has happened for multiple reasons. Philosophy, scheme, personnel.

    Stop the run and create 3rd and long for an all out ambush don't work anymore.

    You have to field enough DL (3 at least) who can keep OL off the LB's while maintaining their gap integrity, pushing the pocket when pass is recognized.

    If you're going to rush the passer, you need to take away the 2 second passes. Extremely soft coverage will negate pass rush. Tighten up and force attempts at deeper routes.

    We've had people in place, in the past, who could make up for other negatives because they were "that good". Those people are gone. I think there is talent there now, it just has to be used properly. Keep Shazier clean. Use more DE OLB twists to create mismatches. Keep the NT on the field and use Shazier more like a hybrid safety on passing downs. Don't get stuck by a no huddle offense with 2 DL on the field.
    If you get stock by a no huddle offense with a huge NT on the field, you are probably worse off...

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Right on the mark with this assessment. This is a pass first and pass often league now that spreads out the "D." Having your down linemen occupying blockers versus attacking the QB and forcing a hurried and perhaps erroneous throw plays right into the hands of the offense. It is no accident that our decrease in sacks directly corresponds to this defense getting worse and the team's record being average. Perfect execution of the three down linemen occupying blockers isn't going to help. The defense needs to be attacking more with the front seven and not predictable OLB blitzes which are easy to pick up by shifting protections or putting a RB out in that area that the OLB must cover and therefore not rush.
    How "Attacking with the front seven" cannot be done without "blitzing the OLBers".

    You know what "predictable" is?
    It is rushing your front four every play.

    OV you are the same one who DIDNT LIKE WOODLEY DROPPING INTO COVERAGE EVER.
    THAT IS WHY THE D IS UNPREDICTABLE.
    So how is "rushing outside linebackers" predictable when you complain that they don't rush every down?

    Heck our defense is so varied YOUR GRIPES are unpredictable.

    Unpredictable is why A STEELER PASS RUSH SPECIALIST has the an "interception" not a sack as the MOST AWESOME DEFENSIVE PLAY IN SB HISTORY. Heck Harrison given the discretion to make the call, made the call himself so even DL could not predict it.

    Unpredictable is how a SAFETY wins a playoff game not in coverage with an int but by stripping the QB ON A SACK.



    PREDICTABLE? You NEVER KNOW where the rush is coming from. You never know who is dropping back.

    If you want to make the case that a 4/3 is more effective DESPITE being predictable that's one thing.

    Please don't try to make the case that our defense is more predictable than a typical 4/3. That is silly.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 08-27-2014 at 06:27 PM.

  4. #124
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Hey Roger...
    Posts
    3,236
    Id rather not get run all over like we did last season
    http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w226/angryasian07/SIGNATURES/DOS2.jpg
    Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations of their women.

  5. #125
    Hall of Famer ikestops85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,287
    Quote Originally Posted by sick beats View Post
    First of all, it is rocket science, or some facsimile there of. How do I know? Because it is Dick Lubaea's creation, so it must be the ultimate in complicated and brilliant. Haven't you heard? His system is so uber complex, that it takes a man years of constant study and repetition to even come close to grasping it near totality. Secondly, this (not all) 3-4 does NOT really on DL winning battles; all they are going for are stalemates, not wins. Any sacks or pressures by the DL is icing on the cake. They are there to clog the lanes up, and the LBs are the ones to make QB pressures, sacks and tackles on the backs, generally speaking. Ever since Hampton, Smith - and to some extent Kemo and those fellas - the clog factor is lacking, and OL are able to reach out and put bodies on our LBs (or our LBs themselves are lacking compared to days previous, such as JJ for sure) so the whole system performs sloppy diarrhea on the field. Our problem is both with the DL AND the LBs; it is a culmination between the two, AND the lack of QB pressure also makes our DBs look worse, obviously. If JJ is a virtual bust, all of this is exacerbated. JJ showed no push whatsoever on "that OT" last week. None. If our ROLB continues to be that weak, the season is over. That is our money position. Having a weakling attempting to man it will be a disaster.
    Where do you get these ideas? Our defensive philosophy is NOT rocket science. A player can only do 5 things ... attack, drop back, move right, move left or hold your ground. Hopefully you can understand this without too much trouble. It's not too complicated yet now, is it? They use the defensive play called and their keys to figure out which of those 5 things to do. That does take some thought but I don't think it requires you to have the intellect of a brain surgeon. The faster they get off on the snap and read the keys correctly the more successful the player and defense as a whole will be.

    It takes athletic talent and some brains to excel playing defense. People with more intellect can make up for having less athletic talent. It's a give and take. All DCs have some complexity in their defense ... not just LeBeau. The reads might have gotten more complicated over the years but that's because the offense has gotten more complicated and the defense has to react. For a defense to be successful you need talent, something which has dropped off on the Steelers D in recent years, and the DC has to have you in the right defense for the offensive play called. Now, if you feel LeBeau is putting the defense in the wrong coverage too often then blame away but give up the crap about his defense being too complex for young players. All defenses require a learning curve for younger players.

    Now on to something you said which I feel is really stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by sick beats View Post
    Secondly, this (not all) 3-4 does NOT really on DL winning battles; all they are going for are stalemates, not wins. Any sacks or pressures by the DL is icing on the cake.
    That this 3-4 does not rely (I assume you meant rely and not really) on the DL winning battles. This is complete and utter BS. Please, please, please give me one quote where LeBeau states that defensive linemen aren't supposed to rush the passer on pass plays ... because that is what you are saying. What, did Aaron Smith get yelled at for the sacks he had? That has got to be one of the craziest statements I've ever read on this site ... and remember, Crash posts here so that is saying something. The D linemen are obviously (to most football fans) supposed to attack the QB on pass plays. They are also supposed to stay in their rush lanes and contain the QB. About the only time a D lineman on any team might try to do what you are suggesting is when they stunt. Then they try and take a particular blocker with them to open up hole for another defender to run through. Of course that is a staple of every frick'in defense in the National Football League.

    I think you need to get some popcorn, a drink and watch games on Sunday afternoons for the next year. Maybe you'll learn something.
    <a href=http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2011/02/roger-goodell.jpg target=_blank>http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2...er-goodell.jpg</a>

  6. #126
    Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Inside Your Head
    Posts
    10,391
    Take away the best players, Smitty, Hampton, Harrison, Farrior, Foote, Woodley, etc. Be stuck relying on aging vets in Keisel, Ike, Troy, etc. And have very little in the way of young legit talent - Timmons, Worilds, Heyward.

    And what do you expect from Lebeau?

    We need better players. That's it. If you want to blame Lebeau for not getting the right guys, sure, put that on him. But I dont think his system or capabilities as a coach have declined.

    And I have a feeling Tomlin, Colbert have more say on personnel than Dick.

    It looks bad. We just need some young players to develop. Tez, Shark, Golden, Shazier, Mitchell, Cam, Tuitt, JJ, etc.

    And I think this D is a little screwed until we get a legit NT. The whole system works off great NT play and we don't have one.

  7. #127
    Hall of Famer DukieBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,224
    Flippy !!! Voice of insight and reason. Good to to see your post here.



    Never argue with stupid people.
    They will drag you down to their level
    and then sick beat you with their experience.




  8. #128
    Wow. It is some scary $#!+ when Flippy is the voice of reason!!!

  9. #129
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,279
    Quote Originally Posted by ikestops85 View Post
    Where do you get these ideas? Our defensive philosophy is NOT rocket science. A player can only do 5 things ... attack, drop back, move right, move left or hold your ground. Hopefully you can understand this without too much trouble. It's not too complicated yet now, is it? They use the defensive play called and their keys to figure out which of those 5 things to do. That does take some thought but I don't think it requires you to have the intellect of a brain surgeon. The faster they get off on the snap and read the keys correctly the more successful the player and defense as a whole will be.

    It takes athletic talent and some brains to excel playing defense. People with more intellect can make up for having less athletic talent. It's a give and take. All DCs have some complexity in their defense ... not just LeBeau. The reads might have gotten more complicated over the years but that's because the offense has gotten more complicated and the defense has to react. For a defense to be successful you need talent, something which has dropped off on the Steelers D in recent years, and the DC has to have you in the right defense for the offensive play called. Now, if you feel LeBeau is putting the defense in the wrong coverage too often then blame away but give up the crap about his defense being too complex for young players. All defenses require a learning curve for younger players.

    Now on to something you said which I feel is really stupid.

    That this 3-4 does not rely (I assume you meant rely and not really) on the DL winning battles. This is complete and utter BS. Please, please, please give me one quote where LeBeau states that defensive linemen aren't supposed to rush the passer on pass plays ... because that is what you are saying. What, did Aaron Smith get yelled at for the sacks he had? That has got to be one of the craziest statements I've ever read on this site ... and remember, Crash posts here so that is saying something. The D linemen are obviously (to most football fans) supposed to attack the QB on pass plays. They are also supposed to stay in their rush lanes and contain the QB. About the only time a D lineman on any team might try to do what you are suggesting is when they stunt. Then they try and take a particular blocker with them to open up hole for another defender to run through. Of course that is a staple of every frick'in defense in the National Football League.

    I think you need to get some popcorn, a drink and watch games on Sunday afternoons for the next year. Maybe you'll learn something.
    i would bet most of A smith's sacks came as a result of coverage sacks or something like the qb taking longer cause of his first read not being open.

    not something where he beat his man off the snap en route straight to the QB. that was more of his game

    as far as DL yelling at him for sacking the QB?? no

    but he did yell at our 4th round NT in one of the camps he was with us about sacking the QB and not playing his assignment

  10. #130
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,279
    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    Take away the best players, Smitty, Hampton, Harrison, Farrior, Foote, Woodley, etc. Be stuck relying on aging vets in Keisel, Ike, Troy, etc. And have very little in the way of young legit talent - Timmons, Worilds, Heyward.

    And what do you expect from Lebeau?

    We need better players. That's it. If you want to blame Lebeau for not getting the right guys, sure, put that on him. But I dont think his system or capabilities as a coach have declined.

    And I have a feeling Tomlin, Colbert have more say on personnel than Dick.

    It looks bad. We just need some young players to develop. Tez, Shark, Golden, Shazier, Mitchell, Cam, Tuitt, JJ, etc.

    And I think this D is a little screwed until we get a legit NT. The whole system works off great NT play and we don't have one.

    the front 7 will have four #1 picks and 2 mid 2nd round picks comprised of it. (6 out of 7 positions)

    last year wasnt much different with hood and woodely there.

    troy is a former #1 and future HOFer still playing well. how much high end talent/pedigree does a DC need to field a good defense?
    for comparison, seattle has 2. irvin who doesnt even play full time and LB bobby wagner
    Last edited by NJ-STEELER; 08-27-2014 at 11:26 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •