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Thread: Great article on Lebeau defense and why it no longer works!!!!!

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    I agree adapting to the NFL is indeed the challenge more than position. But, it's a different more complex D with meaner stronger faster players to line up against.
    IMO, it's the same thing...

    In college, you can practice 20 hours a week, right?

    I would guess that every NFL D is more complex...if only because there is more practice time devoted to learning it...

  2. #82
    Pro Bowler pfelix73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    well, maybe it's because damn near every player has said our D is complex?
    I was talking about the word 'unnecessarily'.
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  3. #83
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    well, maybe it's because damn near every player has said our D is complex?
    And no one has ever mistaken our players for rocket scientists, either.

  4. #84
    The problem with our D is not that our players cant figure it out, our problem is other teams have figured it out. I don't care what scheme you run, if your predictable in the nfl you will get beat.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfelix73 View Post
    I can tell that you've NEVER actually played football on any level because you know nothing about how a depth chart works. You just don't go and plug in a rookie because you want to. Well, I guess you can, but you won't be successful. IF the player WINS the starting job its because they EARNED it. Obviously, the coaching staff saw something in Shazier to move him to the #1 position on the depth chart over Williams. Same went for JJ last year. And to be honest, IF they re-sign Harrison and he performs and impresses at practice over JJ, I would expect #92 to start over JJ.... No different in LeBeau's D or Seattle's... Some of you guys....ughhh..

    Also, this complexity crap on the D is just that...crap. These guys are professionals. They have 24/7 to learn that playbook... Tired of reading over and over and over again about the complexity of the D... yadda yadda........

    I mean when you make a statement with this in it, just how the heck do you know? I mean, sure it might be complex, but maybe its 'necessarily complex'..

    'unnecessarily complex'.
    Fans don't know how complex the defense is and how it relates to facing complex offenses.

    For some reason, fans seem to take how offenses attack defenses out of the equation. Offenses come out every week in multiple formations and personnel packages in an attempt to fool defenses and create favorable match ups. How defenses choose to attack these challenges is different. It takes most young players a few years to truly adapt to the NFL.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    The problem with our D is not that our players cant figure it out, our problem is other teams have figured it out. I don't care what scheme you run, if your predictable in the nfl you will get beat.
    The Steelers have been running the same scheme for a long time. Why did it take so long for teams to figure out the scheme??

    Every team is predictable. Every team in the NFL knows what the other team likes to do. The information is easily complied into computers and translated into %'s. Teams know the opposition's strengths and weaknesses. It's all there on film. The one unknown is how will X player perform on Sunday.

    At the end of the day, the game boils down to execution.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfelix73 View Post
    I can tell that you've NEVER actually played football on any level because you know nothing about how a depth chart works. You just don't go and plug in a rookie because you want to. Well, I guess you can, but you won't be successful. IF the player WINS the starting job its because they EARNED it. Obviously, the coaching staff saw something in Shazier to move him to the #1 position on the depth chart over Williams. Same went for JJ last year. And to be honest, IF they re-sign Harrison and he performs and impresses at practice over JJ, I would expect #92 to start over JJ.... No different in LeBeau's D or Seattle's... Some of you guys....ughhh..

    Also, this complexity crap on the D is just that...crap. These guys are professionals. They have 24/7 to learn that playbook... Tired of reading over and over and over again about the complexity of the D... yadda yadda........

    I mean when you make a statement with this in it, just how the heck do you know? I mean, sure it might be complex, but maybe its 'necessarily complex'..

    'unnecessarily complex'.
    There is more than one way to skin a cat. Making a QB think for an extra half sec because he is unsure of the defensive scheme he is seeing presnap seems equivalent to having an effective pass rush behind a simple defensive scheme. Hearing the Steelers can't get a good pass rush, but also need to simplify their defensive scheme, seems like a recipe for disaster.

  8. #88
    Hall of Famer ikestops85's Avatar
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    I think one of the big problems is all the shows with football highlights. You watch those shows and you see someone like JJ Watt sacking a QB or knocking passes down. They don't show you how many times JJ was caught out of position and trapped for a big play. We just look at those highlights and see a great player. If we watched most young players in this league as closely as we watch Steeler players we would see a different side of their abilities.

    There are very few defensive players who come into the league and immediately become superstars. One reason is because every teams defensive system can be what players call complex. I laugh when people try and say it is just LeBeau's system that is complex. A defensive player for the Rams said they were adding 90 new defensive plays a week. Learning 90 plays a week might be hard but not necessarily complex.

    When you think about it a defensive player is going either forward, back or side to side or staying put. The other thing he needs to do is look at his keys. I don't think defensive players mean the defense is complex. I think they mean they have to react to their keys and not think about them and that takes time to do. When they learn to do that you'll see the players true ability shine through.

    LeBeau's defense works only when each player handles his own responsibilities. If he doesn't, or free lances, then the defense starts to crumble. Rookies, or younger players, are more likely to not react fast enough to handle their responsibilities or free lance and get out of position which is why this defense works better with vets. These vets might not be as athletic as the younger guy but they know what to do.

    Now the question is do the vets have the talent to handle the responsibilities as well as the knowledge? If they don't then you might as well play the younger guys and live with their mistakes. We are seeing that more and more with the Steelers when Thomas, Jones, Shazier and probably Tuitt are getting a ton of playing time this year. Last year Thomas, Williams and Jones got a lot of playing time.

    I don't care what defensive system you play if you don't have talent you won't be successful. What you want from your DC is a guy who can squeeze every last drop of talent out of a player. I think DL does that pretty well. I also think he adjusts well during a game. It doesn't work every time (see Tim Tebow for the obvious example) but it still does enough that most consider him one of the best in the league.
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  9. #89
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    @MarkKaboly_Trib: Take it for what it's worth but Tuitt listed as first team RDE on Steelers depth chart on its website. Cam Thomas as 2nd LDE.Keisel 4th team

  10. #90
    Our 3-4 would work better if Aaron Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Harrison, Woodley and Farrior were six years younger.

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