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Thread: All indications: the wing tip has been raised

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    How can we say all the right pieces are in place?
    Cornerback - aging vet in decline and unproven young guy with a grinder as the nickle
    Safety - The pieces are in place, except depth, not sure what we have in Shamarko
    Linebacker - Timmons is the only proven player, Worilds needs to be good for more than 8 games a year and Jones and Shazier have a combined 1 year of experience.
    DL - Heyward is proven, Tuitt is a rookie, McClendon is a to be determined

    Ben - the Steelers are good
    RB - Bell looks good, Blount has shown spurts , Archer is a rookie
    WR - Brown and then what?
    TE - The Steelers are good with Miller, the rest are ??
    OL - Probably the most NFL ready group on the team
    STs - Poor last year

    As fans we like to think the pieces are in place, but, IMO, there are more questions than answers. The good news is Ben is healthy.

    Pappy
    Of course there are question marks at many positions...we've just had two straight 8-8 seasons...

    If we could feel good about most positions, we wouldn't have been 8-8 and missed the playoffs these last two years...

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    Ovi - How long can Dick Lebeau produce a middle-of-the-road ranked defense before you want him to canned? You shouldn't have any problems answering that question since you bitch and moan about him just about as much as Crash did about Art Rooney II.

    Funny, how you don't have the guts to answer a simple question that requires a simple question. Sounds like you would be content with Tomlin producing 8-8 teams for the next 20 years because of your man crush.

    The difference is... with me, I can like someone personally and still fire them because they don't get the job done. You obviously wouldn't be able to handle that.
    LeBeau can apparently produce a middle of the road defense as long as he wants to stay around. That is exactly what is happening because the team will never fire him.

    The difference between you and me is that you want to lump 8-8 records on one man and use him as the scapegoat. It is far more complex than that. IMO LeBeau is as much a reason if not more for the 8-8 records than Tomlin. He has totally failed in the transition from a veteran heavy defense to a younger defense because he doesn't develop players well, so does Tomlin get the blame for that? Does Tomlin get the blame for the offensive line failing?

    It's easy to find a scapegoat, but what are you getting back if you get rid of Tomlin? Unknown? Cowher? No thanks. It might be easy to be simplistic and just blame Tomlin but all the moving parts of the organization have an equal role in what has happened. So do we totally clean house? Fire all the coaches? Fire the front office? Or just make a sacrifice and throw Tomlin in volcano because that will make some feel something has been done?

    Look at the team around the league who routinely fire coaches, Oakland, Tampa Bay, Detroit, Jacksonville, Phoenix... How are they doing? What is their records over the past 10 years? Need to think things through a little more than you do in your zeal to get rid of Tomlin.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  3. #53
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    LeBeau can apparently produce a middle of the road defense as long as he wants to stay around. That is exactly what is happening because the team will never fire him.

    The difference between you and me is that you want to lump 8-8 records on one man and use him as the scapegoat. It is far more complex than that. IMO LeBeau is as much a reason if not more for the 8-8 records than Tomlin. He has totally failed in the transition from a veteran heavy defense to a younger defense because he doesn't develop players well, so does Tomlin get the blame for that? Does Tomlin get the blame for the offensive line failing?

    It's easy to find a scapegoat, but what are you getting back if you get rid of Tomlin? Unknown? Cowher? No thanks. It might be easy to be simplistic and just blame Tomlin but all the moving parts of the organization have an equal role in what has happened. So do we totally clean house? Fire all the coaches? Fire the front office? Or just make a sacrifice and throw Tomlin in volcano because that will make some feel something has been done?

    Look at the team around the league who routinely fire coaches, Oakland, Tampa Bay, Detroit, Jacksonville, Phoenix... How are they doing? What is their records over the past 10 years? Need to think things through a little more than you do in your zeal to get rid of Tomlin.
    It starts and ends with the head coach. The HC should take the heat and most do... including Tomlin and somehow you are doing the opposite. The owners aren't going to fire themselves and neither will anyone in the FO. The coach is the one that will get fired. It's just the way it works.

    So, you can blabber on about how complicated things are, and you can blame this... and you can blame that, but 8-8 or losing seasons will wear on the FO/ownership and they will pull the trigger if it continues. And yet, you still can't answer a simple question. It speaks volumes. Steelhero and many others had the balls to give an answer....... and you still don't. Gutless, my man.... Your man crush on Tomlin is as clear as your hatred of Lebeau (and the 3-4 defense).

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    It starts and ends with the head coach. The HC should take the heat and most do... including Tomlin and somehow you are doing the opposite. The owners aren't going to fire themselves and neither will anyone in the FO. The coach is the one that will get fired. It's just the way it works.

    So, you can blabber on about how complicated things are, and you can blame this... and you can blame that, but 8-8 or losing seasons will wear on the FO/ownership and they will pull the trigger if it continues. And yet, you still can't answer a simple question. It speaks volumes. Steelhero and many others had the balls to give an answer....... and you still don't. Gutless, my man.... Your man crush on Tomlin is as clear as your hatred of Lebeau (and the 3-4 defense).
    Well you appear to have it all figured out hero, but Tomlin has and will keep his job so carry on.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  5. #55
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Well you appear to have it all figured out hero, but Tomlin has and will keep his job so carry on.
    I think the Steelers will b e 10-6 this year so I don't think or hope Tomlin gets fired. But the reality is... your lack of answer to this simple question exposes you and tells everyone all they need to know.... and by that I don't just mean being gutless.

  6. #56
    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
    I was talking about the pieces "Offensively" papp... relative to Ben. Sorry, I should have clarified those remarks... The RB and WR cores will be fine this year.
    No sweat, I'm just one of those guys that has to see it happen on an NFL field before I'm sold. I like the guys we drafted the past couple years, but until they actually make plays and become quality NFL players they're just good college football players. Hopefully, we'll see the new guys take over and get the Steelers headed towards another run at a Super Bowl while Ben is still in his prime.

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    No sweat, I'm just one of those guys that has to see it happen on an NFL field before I'm sold. I like the guys we drafted the past couple years, but until they actually make plays and become quality NFL players they're just good college football players. Hopefully, we'll see the new guys take over and get the Steelers headed towards another run at a Super Bowl while Ben is still in his prime.

    Pappy
    I respect that view. I think we are off to a good start with AB and Lance Moore...

    from there, there's some talent. I guess we'll just have to see if the old adage is true... meaning "Great QB's" will make a good receiver great.

  8. #58
    If the team finishes this season 8-8 again, particularly if they start off 0-3 or 2-5, I'd have to think Tomlin's job would be in serious jeopardy.

    I think that's what Tomlin thinks, as well, and that that's probably a good thing.

    My prediction is that the team will go 10-6, show significant improvement, and Tomlin will stay. And that would be a really good thing.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradshawsHairdresser View Post
    If the team finishes this season 8-8 again, particularly if they start off 0-3 or 2-5, I'd have to think Tomlin's job would be in serious jeopardy.

    I think that's what Tomlin thinks, as well, and that that's probably a good thing.

    My prediction is that the team will go 10-6, show significant improvement, and Tomlin will stay. And that would be a really good thing.
    The seat definitely gets warm if we start 0-3 unless they are hard fought losses. If it's sloppy mistakes and we look unprepared it SHOULD get hot.

    If we go 10- or 11-5 though... it will really make a few fans on here look crazy for being so upset over 2 .500 seasons while we were rebuilding.

  10. #60
    Legend hawaiiansteel's Avatar
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    Starkey: LeBeau not about to simplify defense

    By Joe Starkey
    Saturday, Aug. 16, 2014

    By the end of the first quarter Saturday, the Heinz Field press box announcer had uttered that phrase so many times, the rest of us might hear it in our heads for about a week.

    The guy probably woke up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night and blurted out “Tackle by Shazier” 25 times.

    What a debut for Steelers rookie linebacker Ryan “Boo-Boo” Shazier. In a little more than a quarter, he made 11 tackles, including two on kickoff returns. He also returned an interception 27 yards to set up a touchdown and sent Buffalo's prized rookie receiver, Sammy Watkins, to the locker room with a rib injury.

    Shazier's first start had been delayed a week because of a bruised knee or, as coach Mike Tomlin repeatedly labeled it, a “boo-boo.” And he wasn't perfect. Some of those tackles came after decent gains, and in the second quarter, he slipped in coverage and allowed a 24-yard gain on third-and-27.

    But he made more than twice as many tackles as anyone on either team in the first half. His was the kind of performance that lent a visual to the oft-repeated notion that this newfangled Steelers defense is fast, fast, fast.

    Earlier in the week, coordinator Dick LeBeau delivered this opinion: “Position to position, it's probably the fastest group we've had.”

    I believe him. But I also wonder if the complexities of LeBeau's defense are sometimes too much for rookies. Consider the case of linebacker Jarvis Jones, who recorded all of one sack during a rocky rookie year in which he often looked lost.

    And check out this amazing quote from linebackers coach Keith Butler, who told Steelers Digest just how lost Jones was.

    “Jarvis was running around last year like a chicken with his head cut off,” Butler said. “He'd be asking, ‘What do I do? What do I do?' and the ball's snapped. … That's the reason I don't like to start rookies. They don't know what to do — most of the time. And Jarvis didn't know. He didn't have any idea, so he's hollering over to Jason Worilds, ‘What do I do?' And then he'd be asking Lawrence (Timmons), ‘What do I do?' ”

    Don't look now, but two more rookies — Shazier and Stephon Tuitt — are candidates to start this season. As such, I wondered if LeBeau had considered streamlining the defense to make it easier for the young guys.

    I couldn't tell whether he laughed or bristled.

    “No, I've actually gone the other direction,” LeBeau said. “The tenor of your team changes every year, and as a coach, if you're worth your salt, you look at the guys you're gonna have and try to identify what their particular strengths are and put them in position to utilize those strengths. That is oftentimes creating new defenses or at least new flows to the pressures. We've added (concepts) to take advantage of some of the speed we've acquired.

    “So no, we haven't slowed down. We've expanded.”

    OK then. That leaves part of me wondering if half the team will be yelling, “What do I do?” when the Steelers line up Sept. 7 against the Cleveland Browns.

    The other part, however, looks back at Shazier against the Bills and says, “Who cares?” Let the kid run into and out of his mistakes.

    And to be fair to LeBeau, rookies everywhere tend to struggle. It's not just his defense.

    This whole unit will be training on the job early on. While Shazier and Troy Polamalu made their preseason debuts Saturday, Jones sat out. We might not see the starting unit intact until Week 1.

    “Do I think we'll be perfect in the first week? Probably not,” LeBeau said. “But I have no question that these young guys can learn the defense.”

    At the very least, the newfound athleticism should enable the Steelers to keep small mistakes from turning into, say, 93-yard runs by the other team's quarterback.

    Plus, the schedule is tailor-made for a unit that might need time to gel.

    Do you know how many top-15 scoring offenses from 2013 the Steelers face in the first seven weeks? None. And they only face one (Indianapolis) in the first 11 weeks before the schedule takes a turn. By that point, you hope the young guys know what to do.

    Something tells me that even if they don't, we'll be hearing “Tackle by Shazier” in our sleep. And that can't be a bad thing.

    http://triblive.com/sports/joestarke...#axzz3Ad69uF3P

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