Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 126

Thread: What makes LeBoo's D so darn complicated?

  1. #41
    Legend RuthlessBurgher's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Where the Rubber Meets the Road (in NEPA)
    Posts
    21,908
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    We typically have no idea what we have in an OLB for 2-3 years because they aren't on the field that much.
    We (the fans) may not, but the coaches see these guys every day...they have a good idea of what they got.

  2. #42
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    3,644
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    But you aren't retraining the 4-3 DE to be something else and you typically can see sooner what you have so you can be proactive in personnel planning. We typically have no idea what we have in an OLB for 2-3 years because they aren't on the field that much.
    Personally, I think college defenses are producing more and more tweener-types than ever before which map easier to a 3-4 OLB than a 4-3 DE. They are very athletic but most of them are 10-15 lbs to small for OLB let alone a NFL-ready 4-3 DE. I don't think it's any coincidence that the NFL-ready 4-3 DEs are usually top 5-10 picks (Clowney) just like 3-4 LBs (Mack).

    If there was an argument for any position, I would use NT.

  3. #43
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    The basis of my argument has always been based on talent replacement. We take players and start a "conversion" process to the most critical position, primarily OLB but also Def Tackle to Def End, in our defense that at best we may have a 50% success rate with. That conversion typically take minimum of two years and lately it seems more. In a salary cap driven league can we expect to function effectively when we ourseleves introduce an additional potential 50% drop out rate on top of the normal NFL drop out rate? The problem is we have a gap between the old vet we have to keep too long because we have not successfully done the "conversion" and the new guy who isn't ready. The only reason this problem didn't hit us much sooner was because we got lucky with James Harrison and lets face it Harrison was luck.

    IMO the 4-3 let's you take players out of college and plug them itno familiar positions in the NFL. You also put them in the positions you spend years scouting and reviewing film with them playing. The adjustment to the NFL then simply becomes one of the speed of the game versus complicating matters and combining speed of the game and new position.

    This analysis would suggest you are wrong. Defensive line is consistently more risky in the draft than LB. So why switch to a defensive scheme that requires you to select more risky players in the draft?


    http://www.nflstatsblog.com/2011/08/...tions-are.html

  4. #44
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,222
    Another case for defensive line being high risk:

    The recent history of the NFL draft is littered with first-round defensive tackles who never lived up to their press clippings.Top-10 selections such as Glenn Dorsey (Kansas City, 2008, Sedrick Ellis (New Orleans, 2008, Amobi Okoye (Houston, 2007), Dewayne Robertson (New York Jets, 2003), Johnathan Sullivan (New Orleans, 2003) and Ryan Sims (Kansas City, 2002) have never played in a Pro Bowl and probably won't. Two of the six, in fact, are no longer in the league.
    Defensive tackle isn't the ultimate hit-or-miss position, but it is pretty close."Because it's so hard to find [tackles], teams probably take more gambles at the position than at just about any other spot," said Carolina coach John Fox. "You tend to reach a little bit … and, let's face it, sometimes you get burned."

  5. #45
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4,587
    Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Strong! As in....

    1-Jaelen Strong WR Arizona State

  6. #46
    Are you still holding to the absurd position that LeBeau's defense is no more complex than the one Jarvis played under in college?

    Guess you missed this thread: http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums...n-Jarvis-Jones

    If you read it, you find that Joey Porter, and Jarvis Jones himself, both disagree with your assertion.

    -- 1. PITTSBURGH Pittsburgh Steelers outside linebacker Jarvis Jones certainly looks like he could be a pass-rushing demon this season.

    Jones, the club's first-round draft pick last year, is big, strong and athletic. But that didn't translate to big numbers, as Jones tallied just one sack as an NFL rookie. Jones has worked hard this spring to improve that part of his game.


    "I've been learning different techniques, hand placement, feet placement and just different things that you can do within the defense that allow you to make plays but, at the same time, be on the same page to what your coaches and teammates have asked you to do,'' Jones said Thursday.


    Jones has said that he's stronger than he was last season and his body type has improved, but he doesn't look any different physically. His on-field play, however, has changed drastically with help from former Steelers outside linebacker Joey Porter.


    "I'm way more comfortable than I was last year,'' Jones said. "We got J.P. in here to help us out this year. He's a great motivator, and he taught us a lot in the past couple of weeks. To have a guy who actually played the game like he did, a great player, I learned a lot.''


    At this time last year, Jones appeared to be confused during spring drills, and he said he really didn't know what to expect. But now that he's gone through a full year of workouts, including his second set of spring drills Jones believed the game was starting to slow down for him.


    "There's been some highs and lows, things that you know you do well, but things that you also have to work on,'' Jones said. "And what I've worked on this spring are the things that will help me get better and help my team get better, understanding the system and the playbook much better and getting in the best shape possible to perform at a high level.''


    So, is Jones ready to have a breakout season?


    "Nah, man, we're not going to make any assumptions,'' Jones said. "We're going to play and continue to work and continue to take it one day at a time. That's what I'm going to focus on during the rest of this offseason and just try to get better every day to get ready for training camp.''


    Porter, a first-year Steelers defensive assistant, has tried to impart all his pass-rushing knowledge on Jones.


    "Pass rushing is all in believing that you can beat the guy (across from you) and executing your craft,'' Porter said. "You have to work at it. You can't just go out and not do any pass-rushing staff during the week and expect to go out there and get a sack on Sunday.''


    Porter was intense as a player, something that was missing from Jones game during his rookie season. Porter has tried to maintain that intensity as a coach.


    "I've got to give them the full me,'' Porter said. "I'm just going to do what's asked of me. ... As a player I would say something slick like I knew it all. As a coach I've got to be humble, because I don't. I'm young in this business, and I'm trying to learn. Like I tell him all the time, you put in the work, and I'm going to be here to help you with whatever you need. I played the position.


    "Soak up all the knowledge I have like a sponge, and I'll just keep giving it to you. Last year, I could imagine how he struggled with the defense. This is a complex defense, (and) to learn it that fast and be thrown in the fire (is tough). ... He's a first-round pick. I didn't have that much pressure on me as a third-round pick. I didn't get thrown into the starting lineup like he did.''


    Jones has been extremely attentive when his new coach talks and watches his every move. So, what has Jones gleaned so far?


    "I think he was just taking the stuff that he saw me do and cleaned it up a little bit, along with the stuff that I saw him do here and there and stuff that we both talked about that I can do to be a better player, like my pass rush,'' Jones said.

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...ws-projections
    Last edited by BradshawsHairdresser; 06-26-2014 at 12:29 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    The basis of my argument has always been based on talent replacement. We take players and start a "conversion" process to the most critical position, primarily OLB but also Def Tackle to Def End, in our defense that at best we may have a 50% success rate with. That conversion typically take minimum of two years and lately it seems more. In a salary cap driven league can we expect to function effectively when we ourseleves introduce an additional potential 50% drop out rate on top of the normal NFL drop out rate? The problem is we have a gap between the old vet we have to keep too long because we have not successfully done the "conversion" and the new guy who isn't ready. The only reason this problem didn't hit us much sooner was because we got lucky with James Harrison and lets face it Harrison was luck.

    IMO the 4-3 let's you take players out of college and plug them itno familiar positions in the NFL. You also put them in the positions you spend years scouting and reviewing film with them playing. The adjustment to the NFL then simply becomes one of the speed of the game versus complicating matters and combining speed of the game and new position.
    The facts are not with you sir. We had the number one defense FOR YEARS converting players. Last years defense WAS NOT a result of young struggling converted players. JJs inability to get sacks was NOT because he was a converted player. YOU ACKNOWLEDGED he is not very fast and needs to get stronger. He also needs to learn this particular defense, which is the case with ANY PLAYER on any team. But it is NOT because he was converted.

    The front seven on this team will not have A SINGLE PLAYER who has played in a 4-3 IN YEARS. That includes every veteran, most of whom have never played a 3/4 base in the NFL. Now look at ALL our young players.

    From Heyward, to Jarvis, to Shazier, to Tuitt, to Zumwalt, to McCullers EVERY SINGLE POTENTIAL YOUNG CONTRIBUTOR ON THIS TEAM player played a 3/4 base in college.

    So you say transitioning young players from a 4-3 to 3-4 WAS a problem (despite "Leboo's" unparalleled success) before?

    So your solution to the "problem" is to "transition" AN ENTIRE TEAM BUILT FOR THE 3-4 in the other direction?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Another case for defensive line being high risk:
    What?

    "Top-10 selections such as Glenn Dorsey (Kansas City, 2008, Sedrick Ellis (New Orleans, 2008, Amobi Okoye (Houston, 2007), Dewayne Robertson (New York Jets, 2003), Johnathan Sullivan (New Orleans, 2003) and Ryan Sims (Kansas City, 2002) have never played in a Pro Bowl and probably won't. Two of the six, in fact, are no longer in the league.
    Defensive tackle isn't the ultimate hit-or-miss position, but it is pretty close."Because it's so hard to find [tackles], teams probably take more gambles at the position than at just about any other spot," said Carolina coach John Fox. "You tend to reach a little bit … and, let's face it, sometimes you get burned."

    I though Ziggy was THE ONLY DLine mistake EVER.

    On the other hand we have Smith in the 4th, Keisel free agent, Kimo V free agent, only Casey was a first rounder (a mid-late one at that) on a defense that HAS NO PEER during its run of success.

  9. #49
    Legend RuthlessBurgher's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Where the Rubber Meets the Road (in NEPA)
    Posts
    21,908
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    What?

    "Top-10 selections such as Glenn Dorsey (Kansas City, 2008, Sedrick Ellis (New Orleans, 2008, Amobi Okoye (Houston, 2007), Dewayne Robertson (New York Jets, 2003), Johnathan Sullivan (New Orleans, 2003) and Ryan Sims (Kansas City, 2002) have never played in a Pro Bowl and probably won't. Two of the six, in fact, are no longer in the league.
    Defensive tackle isn't the ultimate hit-or-miss position, but it is pretty close."Because it's so hard to find [tackles], teams probably take more gambles at the position than at just about any other spot," said Carolina coach John Fox. "You tend to reach a little bit … and, let's face it, sometimes you get burned."

    I though Ziggy was THE ONLY DLine mistake EVER.

    On the other hand we have Smith in the 4th, Keisel free agent, Kimo V free agent, only Casey was a first rounder (a mid-late one at that) on a defense that HAS NO PEER during its run of success.
    Well, Keisel was a 7th round pick and Kimo was a 6th round pick...but yeah, point taken.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    ...as opposed to giving Leboo a pass for consistently decreasing levels of performance. Any Def Coord can look good with a star filled roster but Leboo is suppose to be a "genius." Can't the really great ones do more with less?
    "Leboo" has led the Steelers to the NUMBER ONE DEFENSE in either scoring or yardage in 6 of the last 10 years since his return. Do you get that? There are THIRTY TWO TEAMS and he has led more number one defenses than MOST TEAMS HAVE HAD int he entire superbowl era in a 10 year period.

    He does this with Corners who are late draft picks who have enough talent to have to buy tickets to go to the probowl.

    Newflash, put Casey, Smith, Brett, on a 4-3 team and they aint sniffing a probowl. Harrison aint no DPOY. Clark aint a household name anywhere else.

    The ONLY PLAYERs who would have similar success on a 4-3 team are Troy and Farrior.

    He has ONE HOF player ONE. Average corners. Even very good contributers are mostly BENEFICIARIES for Leboos defense.
    Peerless success.

    Yes, we are wise to keep him
    That is not giving him a pass.
    That is not being STUPID.

    He IS a great one who has done more with less.
    We just take it for granted.

    You just cant loss THAT MANY players and not take a hit in the short term.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 06-26-2014 at 02:40 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •