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Thread: I didn't write it but could of...

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Speed. It's easier to find a guy at 240 pounds that runs a 4.6 then finding a DE stronger enough to handle NFL tackles and quick enough to get to the QB.
    Exactly. There are plenty of guys who have the size and speed to play outside linebacker, but fewer complete 4-3 defensive ends - guys who can rush the QB while still holding up against the run. You end up with many guys who are substituted for on rush downs.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Philly----I would disagree with this constant notion you have that pass rushing defensive line is hard to find. The attached link shows that 7 of the 10 sack leaders last season were defensive linemen and 5 of those were defensive ends.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...3/seasontype/2

    Really need to get off this kick that LeBeau's defense is somehow special and pass rushing OLBs are dominating the NFL. Our defense may have been (past tense) great at attacking the QB from the OLB position, but reality is it hasn't been for 3-4 years in those things that it was supposedly designed to do and that is to pressure the QB and create turnovers.

    As much as you want to make it seem like this is a me versus LeBeau thing, it isn't. It is a make adjustments when you don't have the right personnel thing and it is a talent replacement thing. Essentially quit hanging onto to something that no longer works because you are stubborn and resistent to change. The last 4 years have clearly shown replacing the talent for LeBeau just seems harder than for most NFL defenses. So obviously finding a 3-4 OLB who is a great pass rusher IS NOT easier than finding a DE. Both may be hard, but that DE isn't taking two years or more to convert and learn a new position.
    Ovi, look at the rookie year numbers for those guys. Starting with the top 5, each of whom played DE as a rookie, how many had more than 5 sacks as a rookie? The answer is none, and most contributed very little.

    The Steelers are moving towards a D that does not have to substitute. If you play undersized pass rushers at DE throughout a game, they will get worn out and run over.

    You can find a DE to rush the passer, but they are typically undersized guys who play in sub packages. I'm talking about complete DEs that can play the run and pass. They're hard to come by. Don't take my word for it; Tomlin is the one who said that it is easier to find players for the 3-4.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Philly----I would disagree with this constant notion you have that pass rushing defensive line is hard to find. The attached link shows that 7 of the 10 sack leaders last season were defensive linemen and 5 of those were defensive ends.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...3/seasontype/2

    Really need to get off this kick that LeBeau's defense is somehow special and pass rushing OLBs are dominating the NFL. Our defense may have been (past tense) great at attacking the QB from the OLB position, but reality is it hasn't been for 3-4 years in those things that it was supposedly designed to do and that is to pressure the QB and create turnovers.

    As much as you want to make it seem like this is a me versus LeBeau thing, it isn't. It is a make adjustments when you don't have the right personnel thing and it is a talent replacement thing. Essentially quit hanging onto to something that no longer works because you are stubborn and resistent to change. The last 4 years have clearly shown replacing the talent for LeBeau just seems harder than for most NFL defenses. So obviously finding a 3-4 OLB who is a great pass rusher IS NOT easier than finding a DE. Both may be hard, but that DE isn't taking two years or more to convert and learn a new position.
    But, again, the statistics you cite don't support your point...

    Look at the names on your list:

    Robert Mathis - 12 years
    Robert Quinn - 4 years
    Greg Hardy - 5 years
    Mario Williams - 9 years
    Cameron Jordan - 4 years
    Junior Galette - 5 years
    John Abraham - 15 years
    Jared Allen - 11 years
    Chandler Jones - 3 years
    Olivier Vernon - 3 years

    No rookies...

    Of the sack artists on that list, only two of them exceeded 5 sacks during their first NFL season...Allen and Vernon...not even Mario Williams, #1 overall pick, could record 5 sacks as a rookie...

    How many exceeded 10 sacks during their first NFL season?

    Zero

    Regardless of position, it takes most players at least a year to acclimate to the NFL...usually, it takes more than one year for a pass rusher to accumulate a double digit sack total...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Speed. It's easier to find a guy at 240 pounds that runs a 4.6 then finding a DE stronger enough to handle NFL tackles and quick enough to get to the QB.
    Just find any guy who is 240 and let him run around huh?

    You gave a dry azz requirement for the OLB vs an all world DE.

  5. #45
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    Point out all you want that none of the DE mentioned exceeded 5 sacks, but I bet all or most had more than the 1 Jarvis Jones had. Also, I bet these guys typically played more than an OLB typically plays in our system as a rookie.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Point out all you want that none of the DE mentioned exceeded 5 sacks, but I bet all or most had more than the 1 Jarvis Jones had. Also, I bet these guys typically played more than an OLB typically plays in our system as a rookie.
    I'll bet they never dropped into coverage either.
    <a href=http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2011/02/roger-goodell.jpg target=_blank>http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2...er-goodell.jpg</a>

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Point out all you want that none of the DE mentioned exceeded 5 sacks, but I bet all or most had more than the 1 Jarvis Jones had. Also, I bet these guys typically played more than an OLB typically plays in our system as a rookie.
    Okay...but, the point is still valid that all of those players had an NFL learning curve, regardless of whether or not they played DE or OLB in college or the NFL...

    It isn't as though those guys came into the NFL recording double digit sacks their respective rookie years...

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    I don't see why it would be harder to find a DE than an OLB...
    Look at recent drafts Dizz.
    2013
    Dion J 6'6" 250 can go to any team as DE or LB
    Ditto for
    Anzah
    Mingo

    All three coveted by EVERY TEAM IN THE NFL. All three drafted TOP 6. Despite modest college production the are long gone before we draft.

    Jarvis Jones a college 3/4 LB who specializes in pass rush leading the country is ONLY a consideration of 3/4 teams, we draft him at 17. HE IS THW ONLY PASS RUSH SPECIALIST taken by a 3/4 team in the first. EVERY SINGLE TWEENER was gobbled up by a 4/3 team with a top 6 pick.

    It is simple numbers. EVERYONE IN THE NFL wants 6'5' 250.
    6'2" 240 pass rush specialists only gets first round interest from half the teams.

    Another way to look at it is we essentially have twice the talent pool. It is easier for us because we CAN TAKE 6'6" 250, but are not LIMITED to that guy as our prototype.

    The same when it comes to OUR DE options. We get Heyward and Tuitt, WHO ARE OUR PROTOTYPES, way later than prototype Dline 4/3 guys. Nix went with what could have been OUR 3RD ROUND pick.

    If Woodley or Jones were 6'6" 250 the would go top 10 EASY.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 06-18-2014 at 04:26 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Look at recent drafts Dizz.
    2013
    Dion J 6'6" 250 can go to any team as DE or LB
    Ditto for
    Anzah
    Mingo

    All three coveted by EVERY TEAM IN THE NFL. All three drafted TOP 6. Despite modest college production the are long gone before we draft.

    Jarvis Jones a college 3/4 LB who specializes in pass rush leading the country is ONLY a consideration of 3/4 teams, we draft him at 17. HE IS THW ONLY PASS RUSH SPECIALIST taken by a 3/4 team in the first. EVERY SINGLE TWEENER was gobbled up by a 4/3 team with a top 6 pick.

    It is simple numbers. EVERYONE IN THE NFL wants 6'5' 250.
    6'2" 240 pass rush specialists only gets first round interest from half the teams.

    Another way to look at it is we essentially have twice the talent pool. It is easier for us because we CAN TAKE 6'6" 250, but are not LIMITED to that guy as our prototype.

    The same when it comes to OUR DE options. We get Heyward and Tuitt, WHO ARE OUR PROTOTYPES, way later than prototype Dline 4/3 guys. Nix went with what could have been OUR 3RD ROUND pick.

    If Woodley or Jones were 6'6" 250 the would go top 10 EASY.
    I passionately disagree about Mingo and jordan being DEs. Mingo is the prototype weakside OLB in a 34 (pretty sure the browns are running a 34 again btw) and Dion Jordan is tremendous in space and in coverage and is best fit for a 43 OLB ala Manny Lawson. 43 DE should be his last position

    Never thought of Ansah as a tweener, he was full on 43 DE to me, lebeau loved him though

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Point out all you want that none of the DE mentioned exceeded 5 sacks, but I bet all or most had more than the 1 Jarvis Jones had. Also, I bet these guys typically played more than an OLB typically plays in our system as a rookie.
    Cameron Jordan had 1 sack his rookie year.

    Jarvis Jones played plenty. When the Steelers had guys like Joey Porter, Woodley, Harrison, etc. in their prime, rookies didn't play much, nor should they have.

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