Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 113

Thread: There's Still A Leadership Void

  1. #31
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,478
    Quote Originally Posted by sick beats View Post
    Maybe you've never been on a team. Leadership isn't just about "talking." Talk is cheap. Leaders lead. If you aren't one, you will never be one. Of course you need talent. Football is like a chain link fence: Every link effects each other. It's only as strong as it's weakest link. If you have the most physical talent but no leadership, you don't win squat. I would say the 1990s Houston Oilers had the most talented team for a few years. They never won squat. They would barely win play off games, not to mention, not make it all the way. Why? Lack of leadership which led to lack of chemistry. Leaders don't just talk, they do. If Hines Ward is in your face for missing a block, you know it's a block he would make. If Greg Lloyd yells at your for missing a tackle, you know it's one he would make. Leaders never ask you to do something they wouldn't do themselves. I have seen many fake leaders who ask others to do stuff they themselves wouldn't do. Those people are posers. When the Steelers win, they have leaders on the team. Whether we are talking the Cowher years, with Lloyd, Greene, Woodson, Lake, et al, or the more recent good teams with Ward, Porter, Farrior, Harrison, Bettis, Hartings, Smith.....those leaders made those teams.


    Sorry kid. I played from 5 to college & have been coaching now for a long time. I said talk is cheap...So you just reiterated what I said. Who gives a $hit if you want to talk...You got to earn it to have people follow. This perspective of Leadership by you is ridiculous! If a core ST player was a great leader do you think the troops would rally around him & follow? Do you see rookies all over the league coming in & taking on that role? No...You have to earn the respect of your team mates before you could lead them. That takes time & hard work.


    Talent first makes the team...Plain & simple. When you are making plays on the field & taking the team on your back...You earn that respect. If that player wants to lead his team...They will follow. Being a leader can be that vocal guy between the lines or on the sideline. It could also be that guy in the locker room. You don't have to see that "Ray Lewis" run the mouth on the field to be a vocal leader. There is more leadership going on from film day until game day breakfast than the 60 minutes they are on the field together.

    They are many on this roster who earned the respect of their team mates & are viewed as leaders. This teams lacking of leadership didn't start the downward spiral...It has been lacking talent because those leaders got old & the talent fizzled. This team has been injected with youthful talent & that is what will ignite them. Yes... Leaders are born not made...But Leaders also rise to the surface when their time comes. That time has come. As the vet leaders leave...The young ones take their place. You want to list players that were the face of this franchise over time...That's a good thing. But look at your list. What's the common denominator? There is you answer. Talented...Productive players for the Steelers. It was their work ethic & production that made them leaders in their teammates eyes...It wasn't their ability to lead that made them productive.
    Last edited by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY; 05-30-2014 at 04:50 PM.



  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post


    Sorry kid. I played from 5 to college & have been coaching now for a long time. I said talk is cheap...So you just reiterated what I said. Who gives a $hit if you want to talk...You got to earn it to have people follow. This perspective of Leadership by you is ridiculous! If a core ST player was a great leader do you think the troops would rally around him & follow? Do you see rookies all over the league coming in & taking on that role? No...You have to earn the respect of your team mates before you could lead them. That takes time & hard work.


    Talent first makes the team...Plain & simple. When you are making plays on the field & taking the team on your back...You earn that respect. If that player wants to lead his team...They will follow. Being a leader can be that vocal guy between the lines or on the sideline. It could also be that guy in the locker room. You don't have to see that "Ray Lewis" run the mouth on the field to be a vocal leader. There is more leadership going on from film day until game day breakfast than the 60 minutes they are on the field together.

    They are many on this roster who earned the respect of their team mates & are viewed as leaders. This teams lacking of leadership didn't start the downward spiral...It has been lacking talent because those leaders got old & the talent fizzled. This team has been injected with youthful talent & that is what will ignite them. Yes... Leaders are born not made...But Leaders also rise to the surface when their time comes. That time has come. As the vet leaders leave...The young ones take their place. You want to list players that were the face of this franchise over time...That's a good thing. But look at your list. What's the common denominator? There is you answer. Talented...Productive players for the Steelers. It was their work ethic & production that made them leaders in their teammates eyes...It wasn't their ability to lead that made them productive.
    Great point at the end of the statement about production making leaders as opposed to leaders making production.

  3. #33
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    Great point at the end of the statement about production making leaders as opposed to leaders making production.
    You can produce and not be a leader. Was TO a leader? He was an anti-leader. His stink infected the whole team. Was Barry Sanders a leader? He wasn't an anti-leader, but he wasn't a leader either. And he sure had production.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by sick beats View Post
    You can produce and not be a leader. Was TO a leader? He was an anti-leader. His stink infected the whole team. Was Barry Sanders a leader? He wasn't an anti-leader, but he wasn't a leader either. And he sure had production.
    Ya so, I think you totally missed the point. Nobody said every good player is a leader, but every leader is or was a good player.

  5. #35
    Legend hawaiiansteel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Hawaii 5-0
    Posts
    15,402
    WR Brown has to lead for Steelers

    May, 29, 2014
    By Scott Brown | ESPN.com

    PITTSBURGH -- Antonio Brown is coming off one of the two best statistical seasons ever by a Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver. He is the only wideout on the roster who played more than 200 snaps for the Steelers last season.

    And respected veteran Jerricho Cotchery is now catching passes for the Carolina Panthers.

    Despite all of this, Brown isn't ready to call the wide receivers meeting room his own.

    "I can't claim it yet but working towards it," said Brown, who caught 110 passes for 1,499 yards and eight touchdowns in 2013. "I want to be the guy that sets the standard and hopefully other guys will follow."

    Brown has earned the right to lead the wide receivers based on his production and his work ethic. The latter is, in a word, maniacal. This is after all a player who will put in a full work day at the Steelers' practice facility and then go to a gym to work out at night.

    And this is during the season.

    There is another reason why Brown has to lead the wide receivers this season: The two-time Pro Bowler made it incumbent upon himself to do so after he criticized former Steelers captain Ryan Clark in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review and questioned team unity during consecutive 8-8 seasons.

    Whether Browns was right or not, the fourth-year veteran has to assume the lead in making sure there are no divisions in the Steelers' locker room moving forward.

    And that there are no agendas that are incompatible with the Steelers returning to the playoffs after a two-year hiatus and re-establishing themselves as legitimate Super Bowl contenders.

    Brown has already proven he can lead by example. Now he has to help bring along younger wide receiver such as Markus Wheaton and Martavis Bryant.

    "I've got to set the tempo, have a leadership role and explain to guys assignments and what is expected," Brown said.

    He took the lead in outlining what is expected when he went public with his criticism of Clark and perceived rifts that had pervaded the Steelers' locker room.

    His next step is making sure others follow him in upholding that standard.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-s...d-for-steelers

  6. #36
    Hall of Famer ikestops85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.wizard View Post
    Ya so, I think you totally missed the point. Nobody said every good player is a leader, but every leader is or was a good player.
    Sorry Mr. Wizard but I think you and JPN are missing what Sick Beats is saying. He never said you only needed leaders and not talent. Of course you need talent. You also need leaders who can maximize the talent that the team does have. The Patriots are a prime example. They don't have the most talent in the league. The past few years their defense has been bad, their receivers average at best, and even their offensive line wasn't that talented. So how do they consistently win double digit games every year and are a force in the AFC? I think the answer is that they have some great leaders. Why do some teams seem to have a lot of talent but never seem to put it together and win (i.e. Lions or Bengals)? I think it is because they lack the necessary leadership -- both on and off the field.

    There is no question that the Steelers have regressed talent wise. They have also fallen off from a leadership perspective. Ben is a great player and the QB I want on the field late in the 4th quarter but I would never confuse him with a team leader. The same goes for Troy. A great player but not someone who is going to fire the team up and get them to play above their talent level.

    As much as I hate to say this Ray Lewis was a great leader for the Ratbirds. He was able to lift that team up emotionally and have them play way beyond their talent level to win the SB a couple of years ago. He wasn't a great player when he did that. At most he was average at that point in his career.

    Face it, there is not a lot of difference between the most and least talented teams in the NFL. So not only do the Steelers need to increase the talent on the team they need to find more leaders like Ward and Porter and Lloyd and Farrior and Cowher. Finding leaders, whether it be players or coaches, can be the difference between making the playoffs or not ... winning the SB or losing it.
    <a href=http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2011/02/roger-goodell.jpg target=_blank>http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2...er-goodell.jpg</a>

  7. #37
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,872
    Quote Originally Posted by ikestops85 View Post
    Sorry Mr. Wizard but I think you and JPN are missing what Sick Beats is saying. He never said you only needed leaders and not talent. Of course you need talent. You also need leaders who can maximize the talent that the team does have. The Patriots are a prime example. They don't have the most talent in the league. The past few years their defense has been bad, their receivers average at best, and even their offensive line wasn't that talented. So how do they consistently win double digit games every year and are a force in the AFC? I think the answer is that they have some great leaders. Why do some teams seem to have a lot of talent but never seem to put it together and win (i.e. Lions or Bengals)? I think it is because they lack the necessary leadership -- both on and off the field.

    There is no question that the Steelers have regressed talent wise. They have also fallen off from a leadership perspective. Ben is a great player and the QB I want on the field late in the 4th quarter but I would never confuse him with a team leader. The same goes for Troy. A great player but not someone who is going to fire the team up and get them to play above their talent level.

    As much as I hate to say this Ray Lewis was a great leader for the Ratbirds. He was able to lift that team up emotionally and have them play way beyond their talent level to win the SB a couple of years ago. He wasn't a great player when he did that. At most he was average at that point in his career.

    Face it, there is not a lot of difference between the most and least talented teams in the NFL. So not only do the Steelers need to increase the talent on the team they need to find more leaders like Ward and Porter and Lloyd and Farrior and Cowher. Finding leaders, whether it be players or coaches, can be the difference between making the playoffs or not ... winning the SB or losing it.
    Right on. What he said. Also, you know how I know Ben isn't a true leader? Because when there was such an obvious leadership void, he said, "I don't think we are lacking leadership." Only a non-leader wouldn't realize when there was a lack of leadership. Ben likes to play a leader on TV, but players know when he is just hamming it up for the cameras. They aren't that stupid to not tell the difference.

    I remember a story about Lloyd, Woodson, et al. When a rookie or young player complained about practice being too hard, they told him, "Shut your stink hole. We don't say things like that around here." And you can be sure players stopped whining. Leader keep everyone in line, even better than coaches in many instances.

  8. #38
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    13,822
    Quote Originally Posted by sick beats View Post
    Right on. What he said. Also, you know how I know Ben isn't a true leader? Because when there was such an obvious leadership void, he said, "I don't think we are lacking leadership." Only a non-leader wouldn't realize when there was a lack of leadership. Ben likes to play a leader on TV, but players know when he is just hamming it up for the cameras. They aren't that stupid to not tell the difference.

    I remember a story about Lloyd, Woodson, et al. When a rookie or young player complained about practice being too hard, they told him, "Shut your stink hole. We don't say things like that around here." And you can be sure players stopped whining. Leader keep everyone in line, even better than coaches in many instances.
    we didn't make the playoffs every year with Lloyd and Woodson.

    Ben is a leader, that isn't up for debate.

  9. #39
    [QUOTE=ikestops85;604678]The Patriots are a prime example. They don't have the most talent in the league. The past few years their defense has been bad, their receivers average at best, and even their offensive line wasn't that talented. So how do they consistently win double digit games every year and are a force in the AFC? /QUOTE]

    They play in a perennially weak-@$$ division?

  10. #40
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,478
    Quote Originally Posted by ikestops85 View Post
    Sorry Mr. Wizard but I think you and JPN are missing what Sick Beats is saying. He never said you only needed leaders and not talent. Of course you need talent. You also need leaders who can maximize the talent that the team does have. The Patriots are a prime example. They don't have the most talent in the league. The past few years their defense has been bad, their receivers average at best, and even their offensive line wasn't that talented. So how do they consistently win double digit games every year and are a force in the AFC? I think the answer is that they have some great leaders. Why do some teams seem to have a lot of talent but never seem to put it together and win (i.e. Lions or Bengals)? I think it is because they lack the necessary leadership -- both on and off the field.

    There is no question that the Steelers have regressed talent wise. They have also fallen off from a leadership perspective. Ben is a great player and the QB I want on the field late in the 4th quarter but I would never confuse him with a team leader. The same goes for Troy. A great player but not someone who is going to fire the team up and get them to play above their talent level.

    As much as I hate to say this Ray Lewis was a great leader for the Ratbirds. He was able to lift that team up emotionally and have them play way beyond their talent level to win the SB a couple of years ago. He wasn't a great player when he did that. At most he was average at that point in his career.

    Face it, there is not a lot of difference between the most and least talented teams in the NFL. So not only do the Steelers need to increase the talent on the team they need to find more leaders like Ward and Porter and Lloyd and Farrior and Cowher. Finding leaders, whether it be players or coaches, can be the difference between making the playoffs or not ... winning the SB or losing it.
    No...We get what he is saying. He just doesn't understand there isn't an NFL Shop for these "leaders" he wants the team to get. Teams don't set up draft boards & prioritize FA based on their ability to be a leader. The pay & draft for talent. A player that shows leadership ability in college or on another NFL team brings that asset to the table but it isn't a trait that exist as soon as pen is put to paper. Leaders earn the respect of team mates. It is that simple.

    Read sickbeats first post. Without the leaders...No rings. Umm...Those "leaders" were here. They were not the players they were. Their leadership ability netted the Steelers nothing because their talent depleted. Timmons, Troy, Pouncey no leaders....Really? Also implying BB no leader. So what do you think goes on in a huddle crunch time? When your QB is confident when the game is on the line & gets the players heads right....You don't see that as leadership? I'm curious...What is your "definition" of a leader? Put it this way...When BB told Mike Wallace "That's Enough!" 3-4 years ago in the locker room during an interview when he was talking about "Young Money"....Everyone should have noticed BB has a locker room presence. I see more haters than Steeler fans. If you read the article above & see AB's quotes...You will see all you need to know.

    EVERY player people want to bring up as great leaders for the Steelers started at the bottom & rose to that role. There are already leaders in place. There are young players on the roster ready to make that step too. It's their turn to sit at the head of the table. It's a young team & many in here panic with change. It had to happen & the process is in full swing. I see people in here saying BB isn't & Pouncey can't & Troy never was. "Leaders" are on the field...They are in the lockeroom...They are in the classroom....They are in the team meetings....They are off the field. They lead by example. Their work ethic...First one in & last one out. They help young players out at their position. They help them get acclimated to the NFL on & off the field. This is the Steelers. Just because the faces change doesn't mean the Steeler way has changed. You can say this about every player who someone views as a great leader for the Steelers. This was the Steelers before they got here...This will be the Steelers long after they leave.

    For everyone disagreeing & wanting these "leaders"...Name some. Name the guy over the last few drafts or this draft that showed that exceptional leadership ability in college that you wanted here. Name the FA you wanted the Steelers to sign to fill that "leadership" void claimed to exist. Fill the void. Just Remember...Hindsight reveals many things!



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •