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Thread: Lance Moore and the Steelers reach 2 yr deal.

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    Agreed.

    hausparty, Pap isn't calling you out, but, generally saying that all the guys wanting to pick up FA WRs and draft WRs and TE's early so we can score 50 per game aren't really getting it right. iirc, the Rams were really the last team to score a zillion and make their way to the Super Bowl. Even when Manning did it, he had Freeney, Bob Sanders and a slew of underappreciated stars on defense.
    The Rams were nowhere near the last team to make a SB by being one of the top offenses in the league. The pats* set the record for scoring just a few years ago until the Broncos shattered it this year. You also have the Saints who scored 32 ppg and their defense that was ranked 20th in points scored. They outscored both of the SB Ram teams. Even the 2005 Seahawks were 1st in offense that year.

  2. #102
    True, but most of those teams faltered in the SB ('01 Rams, '05 Seahawks, '07 Pats, '13 Broncos)...

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Also, how many SBs did we win with Mike Wallace?

    We have a legit #1 with Brown...we have a legit #3 with Moore...do we have a legit #2 with Wheaton? Or will we have to draft one?
    We didn't win any with Wallace, but we did with Cedric Wilson and Randle El as receivers. My only point and I apologize to hausparty if he took my comment as a poke at him/her (which is entirely possible after I read what I wrote) is that you do not have to be prolific on offense to win games in the NFL even though the rules have been changed to favor the offense. I am of the opinion that with Ben, a good defense and a good running game you can win in the NFL. You do not have to put up big numbers on offense.

    The problem as I see it when you rely on your offense to out score teams is that the slightest of mistakes puts you in a bad situation. It seems to me that it is much easier to make a mistake on offense, such as not converting a third into a first forcing a punt, or you don't score a TD and settle for a FG, a fumble, an interception, sack, tackle for loss, penalties, etc than there are ways to make mistakes on defense. Dick Lebeau has a HOF coaching career based on that fact, force the offense to use 9, 10, 11, 12 plays to score and sooner or later, someone misses an assignment, you get a pick, a fumble, a penalty, a mental error allowing a sack, etc. and your offense then has the ball.

    Pappy
    Last edited by papillon; 03-26-2014 at 06:11 PM.


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    The Rams were nowhere near the last team to make a SB by being one of the top offenses in the league. The pats* set the record for scoring just a few years ago until the Broncos shattered it this year. You also have the Saints who scored 32 ppg and their defense that was ranked 20th in points scored. They outscored both of the SB Ram teams. Even the 2005 Seahawks were 1st in offense that year.
    then, let me rephrase... WIN... was saying the Rams were the last to win. guess the Saints were close, but, their overall defense was better than the scoring indicates... they were double-digits on the turnover margin, for example
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Also, how many SBs did we win with Mike Wallace?

    We have a legit #1 with Brown...we have a legit #3 with Moore...do we have a legit #2 with Wheaton? Or will we have to draft one?
    considering they've won 2 with lesser WRs, doesn't that kinda prove the point?
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    Dick Lebeau has a HOF coaching career based on that fact, force the offense to use 9, 10, 11, 12 plays to score and sooner or later, someone misses an assignment, you get a pick, a fumble, a penalty, a mental error allowing a sack, etc. and your offense then has the ball.

    Pappy
    But that hasn't been happening for at least three years and it has gotten worse every year with no fixes being put in place or adjustments made.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    But that hasn't been happening for at least three years and it has gotten worse every year with no fixes being put in place or adjustments made.
    Because the players just aren't developing like the Steelers thought they would. They saw the end coming for many long time Steelers and tried to replace them, but were not successful. Since the defense wasn't dominate, it would have been nice for the offense to pick it up a bit and while they had some success, not enough to pick up the slack from the defense that wasn't top 5 in the league. When something is successful for so long as the Steelers have been on defense, I don't see changing the philosophy just because there are a couple of bumps in the road.

    Switching to the 4-3 two years ago would have probably netted two 8-8 seasons with a middle of the pack defense as well, simply because an entire defense would have been learning a new system, so we'd be in the same boat, needing to draft players to improve an average defense.

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    But that hasn't been happening for at least three years and it has gotten worse every year with no fixes being put in place or adjustments made.
    True... but we won't get better with a better offense and the same D. We tried to make one more run and it bit us in the arse. 12-4 and 2 .500 seasons isn't bad by NFL standards.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    then, let me rephrase... WIN... was saying the Rams were the last to win. guess the Saints were close, but, their overall defense was better than the scoring indicates... they were double-digits on the turnover margin, for example
    I'm sorry but you aren't making any sense. The Rams defense was 4th in the league in scoring and was much better than the Saints. They only allowed 15 PPG. The Saints won the SB with a more powerful offense and a worse defense than the Rams. So changing it to "WIN" doesn't help your argument.

    The fact is that many high scoring teams have won and lost the SB. The Rams weren't close to the last ones. Even the 05 pats* scored 27.3 ppg. Just to put that into prospective, no Steeler team has ever scored that amount in one season.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    We didn't win any with Wallace, but we did with Cedric Wilson and Randle El as receivers. My only point and I apologize to hausparty if he took my comment as a poke at him/her (which is entirely possible after I read what I wrote) is that you do not have to be prolific on offense to win games in the NFL even though the rules have been changed to favor the offense. I am of the opinion that with Ben, a good defense and a good running game you can win in the NFL. You do not have to put up big numbers on offense.

    The problem as I see it when you rely on your offense to out score teams is that the slightest of mistakes puts you in a bad situation. It seems to me that it is much easier to make a mistake on offense, such as not converting a third into a first forcing a punt, or you don't score a TD and settle for a FG, a fumble, an interception, sack, tackle for loss, penalties, etc than there are ways to make mistakes on defense. Dick Lebeau has a HOF coaching career based on that fact, force the offense to use 9, 10, 11, 12 plays to score and sooner or later, someone misses an assignment, you get a pick, a fumble, a penalty, a mental error allowing a sack, etc. and your offense then has the ball.

    Pappy

    To your point, as one coach said, a pass can only result in 3 things and 2 of them are bad.

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