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Thread: Gilbert vs. Dennard - state your case

  1. #1
    Pro Bowler D Rock's Avatar
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    Gilbert vs. Dennard - state your case

    I am impressed with Gilbert's athleticism and ability to make teams pay for bad decisions or errant throws, but he gives up way too much in between. I do not think he is a great cover guy, just very opportunistic. Still...would you rather have a guy who allows 0 points or a guy who can score 7?



    Dennard? He can lock down a receiver. Flat out. If you put on a game tape with no context to what you are watching, you wouldn't know who was running the route and who was covering because he is that smooth, decisive, and efficient in his coverage and smothering of receivers. He will make the occasional INT, but not as much of a threat to get the pick 6 at any time. Often it is because he forces the QB to throw it where neither he nor the receiver can get it.


    Me? I'm taking Dennard hands down. I don't even know if I would want Gilbert. I think he will be exposed by NFL QBs who will make less mistakes and offenses with better receivers running better and more complex routes.

    I see Dennard as a lock down CB, perennial pro-bowler. I think Gilbert will be a bust as a 1st rounder. I think he will make headlines and highlights here and there, but I think he will also become a liability.

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    Pro Bowler D Rock's Avatar
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    Pro Bowler D Rock's Avatar
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    Starter Rara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Rock View Post
    with the 3:39 I've watch so far of this video. Not that impressed, as of right now that is..He had a 2 good plays at the beginning and then seemed to get frustrated (also giving way too much cushion at times) and missed a tackle. Showed so much frustration that he ended up getting "disqualified" from the game against West Virginia. He does have the height advantage over Dennard..

    Dennard seems to have the advantage...he may be shorter but packs quite the punch. He does play tight coverage (better than Gilbert, from what I've seen on both videos), he has more speed and strength. I definitely want Dennard but its going to be hard getting him when Detroit is looking at him as well.

    Also to keep in mind...It was just Tomlin and Colbert at the MSU Pro day (probably checking in on Dennard) while there were Tomlin, Colbert and 3 other Steeler coaches...from what I thought I read (can't remember where I saw that earlier.)


    Right now, all I'm saying is...if one of these two guys are available at #15..I want one of them
    Last edited by Rara; 03-13-2014 at 10:54 PM.
    Rara's very early 2015 NFL Mock Draft
    Round 1- Jalen Collins, CB; LSU
    Round 2- Eric Lefeld, OT; Cincinatti
    Round 3- Tyler Kroft, TE; Rutgers
    Round 4- Geneo Grissom, OLB; Oklahoma
    Round 5- Jonathon Mincy, CB; Auburn
    Round 6- Jamil Douglas, OG; Arizona State
    Round 7- Spencer Roth, P; Baylor

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    Ok, so I have said multiple times that I like both players....but I'll bite.

    Gilbert to me has elite potential at both CB and FS (if he were to bust at CB). His return ability and ball skills adds a dimension to the defense we CRAVE as steeler fans. He is the perfect zone CB, can run with anyone and has a knack for breaking on the ball (think Asante Samuel when watching him jump routes, his timing is tremendous)

    Dennard surprises me that many steelers fans want him, hes very much like Ike with less that good hands but excellent awareness and ability to stick on the hips of a WR and get his head around to knock a pass down. His awareness in that regard is top notch, he wont get many PI calls because he plays the ball so well, but you see more passes defended than picks (something steeler fans are notorious for crying about).

    Gilbert is potentially Patrick Peterson caliber of an athlete at CB, his floor, imo is Antrel Rolle. Could do much worse than that at the 15th pick. Dennard to me could be a lock down man corner in the mold of Revis, or he could be a gunner on special teams. Realistically I see him as a Leon Hall caliber CB, someone who floats around the top 10-15 conversation...again, could do MUCH worse at pick #15

    I am not usually a fan of taking a CB in the first round, but Id pull the trigger on these guys if Watkins, Clowney, Evans, Mack, Barr, Matthews are all gone and possibly over Hageman, Mosely, Lee. Real tough valuation

    Id prefer Gilbert though, thats just me....but hopefully he checked out mentally, those Oklahoma st guys dont seem to have their heads screwed on the tightest much of the time

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    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    No thanks to both, take Verrett in the second he's darn near as good. Gilbert tackles poorly (I'd be shocked if the Steelers take him) and Dennard is a PI penalty waiting to happen with all the clutching and grabbing down field. Both are certainly elite athletes though and Gilbert probably adds to the return game and appears to have very good hands. Dennard covers tighter, but will be prone to PI calls IMO.

    Verrett is willing to tackle, plays special teams and covers pretty well, wait for the second round. Not ideal height and weight, but he's learned how to work around his physical size, he's not afraid to tackle. He will be targeted with back shoulder throws to taller receivers at least he's a good tackler.

    You can go here http://draftbreakdown.com/players/jason-verrett/ to see a few clips of Verrett, the good, the bad and the indifferent, there isn't a whole lot not to like. I don't see much difference between him, Dennard and Gilbert.

    Pappy
    Last edited by papillon; 03-14-2014 at 10:40 AM.


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

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    Ill pass on Verrett, give me Stanley Jean-Baptiste if we are waiting

    Disagree on Dennard being a PI waiting to happen, hes grabby but you can be with your head turned playing the ball. And on Gilberts tackling, they can correct that....no way he comes here and leaves training camp a poor tackler, they turn DBs into tackling DBs, its their MO

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    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K Train View Post
    Ill pass on Verrett, give me Stanley Jean-Baptiste if we are waiting

    Disagree on Dennard being a PI waiting to happen, hes grabby but you can be with your head turned playing the ball. And on Gilberts tackling, they can correct that....no way he comes here and leaves training camp a poor tackler, they turn DBs into tackling DBs, its their MO
    How do you teach good tackling in 6 weeks? Good tacklers take years to perfect the art of tackling, first you have to be willing and in the video above he didn't appear as willing to stick his nose in and make a tackle. Okay, I'm good with waiting on Jean-Baptiste, because I hope they wait. If, you held a gun to my head and told me to pick, I'd take Dennard. I hope they wait, that's my point, Verrett is my choice, Jean-Baptiste would be fine as well, because both would be 2nd round picks and not 1.15.

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    How do you teach good tackling in 6 weeks? Good tacklers take years to perfect the art of tackling, first you have to be willing and in the video above he didn't appear as willing to stick his nose in and make a tackle. Okay, I'm good with waiting on Jean-Baptiste, because I hope they wait. If, you held a gun to my head and told me to pick, I'd take Dennard. I hope they wait, that's my point, Verrett is my choice, Jean-Baptiste would be fine as well, because both would be 2nd round picks and not 1.15.

    Pappy
    I didnt say he would perfect it, but its not something hed come away from camp being weak at doing....Keenan Lewis and William Gay came out of their first training camp excellent tacklers for rookies it is stressed extremely hard for the DBs. They continued to get better and are both among the best tacklers at the position.

    Hes not Cromartie/Mike Jenkins unwilling to tackle, honestly you see him in those videos a lot he is making coverage look easy most of the time

  10. #10
    Hall of Famer SidSmythe's Avatar
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    DENARD b/c he fits into the Steelers scheme better. Gilbert has the speed but Denard will be better playing both man, zone and run support.
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