Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 80

Thread: If Gilbert falls to us, I say take him.

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    I mentioned this in another tread about Dennard. I had Gilbert rated ahead of him & Dennard had to show me he could open up his hips & run and react & break to close that gap on Gilbert. He looked stiff in off coverage on tape. Dennard didn't show he is fluid coming out of his backpedal at the combine. He was high in his backpedal & struggled flipping his hips & running. SO...If we are going to TAB a guy in a DL defense for coverage...Gilbert is the better fit. Dennard showed on tape he is a better "fit" against the run in a DL defense...Gilbert has to go from "willing" to doing it.

    Dennard is still a solid player. A Top 15 guy isn't a reach. Dennard will be a "scheme" guy. He will excel in a defense that plays allot of Cover 0 & Cover 1...Like a Seattle defense. He won't be as productive in an off man coverage-zone team...Like the Steelers. He will be an outside guy...He may struggle on the "quick twitch" slot guys if they get off LOS. So you have to be 100% sure if you take him in the Top 15...He fits what you want to do. If Dennard has to line up 10 yards off LOS & look in backfield & backpedal...He won't be playing to his strength. He needs to be in Cover 0...Jamming the WR on the LOS & turning to run with the WR. Sometimes you can see a player is raw & could attribute that to technique & coach him up...But the hips don't lie. I'm not saying this to ruffle anyone's feathers. But if I'm a Steeler guy trying to find a CB to fit in the Steelers system they have shown...Gilbert would be my guy. I wouldn't be banging the table for Dennard if others players were there & it was close. We may see what the Steelers think....But there is a very good chance a team in front of us takes him. There are a few fits.
    Doubt it matters because Dennard is likely to be gone before 15. Gilbert should be there.

  2. #52
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,452
    I guess it could happen but I think Gilbert will be first off the board. Gilbert is rated higher imo. He has shown allot of press, off man, & a little zone. Dennard is a press guy & great in run support. He may struggle off the LOS at the next level covering all the route tree. You watch any film on Dennard & most of the time he is pressing the outside guy. If that guy runs a vertical route...Dennard has him blanketed. When he is off or following motion...He opens his hips at the snap & turns and runs. He has to learn how to play out of his backpedal at the next level or he will get worked. He didn't look good at the combine doing it & not allot of tape at MSU.

    The two things we have seen in the transition to be a starting CB....#1 you have to be able to press. #2 If you don't have the skills to play CB out of your backpedal...An NFL coach will expose you. It easy to take a CB out of his comfort zone in press. Bunch formation & motion creates free release. No matter if you are in Cover 0 or not...The OC and/or QB can create free release for his WR. That's Dennard's weakness...Being off the LOS & covering the timing routes. When he is playing off at times he gets turned around & levels his breaks. That screams tight hips. You could say technique on game film be he didn't look fluid at the combine in transition from backpedal. Tough one to call.

    Again, I'm not bashing Dennard...I'm just saying he didn't show on tape he is a good fit for the Steelers. The Steelers want their CB to support the run. Dennard is a very good tackler & attacks the LOS when he sees run. The problem here is the Steelers play down & distance football on coverage. On 1st & 10...Even if they are in man...They are in off man. The reason DL has the CBs do that is to look in the backfield & defend run 1st because he walks Troy up in the box. So Dennard will have to play man out of his back pedal if the QB pulls up the ball. He will have a whole route tree to defend. If the WR goes vertical...Dennard has shown he could stay with him. But he has to defend the out, dig, curl, comeback, & even a slant. He gets tuned around or levels out his break on allot of those routes because his hips are already open. If he is going to open his hips on the snap...The QB will throw the slant in front of him all day. Is it correctable by coaching or is he tight? When we see a sub package where you could put Dennard in the WR face & press...All Day! He will get beat on a back shoulder throw from time to time but that's just the game. I'm sure many will say just let him press all the time but you put yourself at risk in the run. The WR could run him off or down & exposes that side of the field.

    Dennard is a very good run supporter & man to man press CB. I'm just not sure he fits here with limited tape on him playing off man. On that limited tape there was some concerns. The combine position drills didn't erase those concerns. He didn't do any of his cone times either. My eyes haven't been satisfied yet that it is technique. If the Steelers select him, I'm sure they will be 100% sure it is technique & correctable.

  3. #53
    While I respect your opinion, many scouts disagree with you. I can line up several write ups if you wish. I can say this...I have watched Dennard and never seen him look stiff or slow in the hips.

    - Sticks to his man like glue. Allows very little separation.
    - Fluid hips. Can twist and turn on his switch with ease.
    - Reaction time and body control are sublime. This is his calling card. He can identify and adjust to the ball for better positioning instantly.
    - Physical. Uses the sideline as an extra defender and doesn't give up routes easily to the receivers.
    - Effective jammer and can disrupt much bigger WRs at the line of scrimmage.
    - Above average run defender

    http://www.bigblueview.com/2014-nfl-draft-mock-order-prospects-picks-new-york-giants/2014/2/3/5343056/2014-nfl-draft-prospect-darqueze-dennard-cb-michigan-state-scouting-report-new-york-giants

  4. #54
    Per Behind the steel curtain...

    He has good footwork in his back pedal, maintaining a balanced controlled stance and generally keeping his pad level low. Dennard has fluid hips and is able to flip them and run very well. This allows him to mirror his receiver's routes and stay in position.

  5. #55
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,452
    And I have watched him too. We all had a look at him at the combine in his positional drills. Didn't do any cone drills at the combine...Wonder why. Jim Wexell saw same thing.

    James C Wexell‏@jimwexell Feb 25
    I'll drop Dennard out of aforementioned group for pick 15. Don't see him picking up off coverage.

    James C Wexell ‏@jimwexell Feb 25 struggled flipping his hips out of his pedal today. Probably why you never see him pedal.

    James C Wexell ‏@jimwexell Feb 25 Never saw him backpedal on tape, Then he didn't go to the Sr. Bowl, and finally had to today. Can't .



    https://twitter.com/jimwexell/status/438351738962456576



    Here's about everything you could get online with Dennard. Shows you everything I said. Good press corner...Good run supporter. When he is off LOS...Opening hips & running. ...No back pedal. You could see him struggle in transition to the WR coming out of his cuts in the timing routes. He will see more of this in the NFL than vertical routes. His man coverage on vertical routes is excellent. He's a little grabby but he will adapt.

    http://draftbreakdown.com/players/darqueze-dennard/



    He has to show me in drills because he didn't show it on tape. He didn't do any agility drills or log any "explosive" measurables at the combine. He has enough straight line speed to complete but he is a CB...He needs change of direction with his reaction. His Proday might slide him behind Fuller in my book. We will see if the Steelers think he fits. I don't.

  6. #56
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    While I respect your opinion, many scouts disagree with you. I can line up several write ups if you wish. I can say this...I have watched Dennard and never seen him look stiff or slow in the hips.

    - Sticks to his man like glue. Allows very little separation.
    - Fluid hips. Can twist and turn on his switch with ease.
    - Reaction time and body control are sublime. This is his calling card. He can identify and adjust to the ball for better positioning instantly.
    - Physical. Uses the sideline as an extra defender and doesn't give up routes easily to the receivers.
    - Effective jammer and can disrupt much bigger WRs at the line of scrimmage.
    - Above average run defender

    http://www.bigblueview.com/2014-nfl-draft-mock-order-prospects-picks-new-york-giants/2014/2/3/5343056/2014-nfl-draft-prospect-darqueze-dennard-cb-michigan-state-scouting-report-new-york-giants




    Don't forget the rest.

    Cons


    - Height/Weight/Speed are concerns. He's average to below average in these areas. He is 5-foot-11, 197 pounds.
    - Seems a bit uncomfortable in zone
    - Physicality and style of play could lead to pass interference penalties at the next level.
    - Unknown how he might perform in the slot.
    Does He Fit With The Giants?

    Yes. He will have to adjust to playing more zone, as he's a pure man cover corner at this point, but I feel like we say that about all of our corners. He's a bit too physical and dominant for his own good sometimes, and I've seen him mug receivers and not get called. He'll need to hide that a bit better like the Seahawks secondary does. He can slot right in to the outside position opposite Prince and allow the Giants to play sides instead of having Prince shadow.

  7. #57
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Per Behind the steel curtain...

    He has good footwork in his back pedal, maintaining a balanced controlled stance and generally keeping his pad level low. Dennard has fluid hips and is able to flip them and run very well. This allows him to mirror his receiver's routes and stay in position.


    Your source.

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...ort-film-video
    Weaknesses
    While Dennard isn't afraid to play physically his size can put him at risk against some of the bigger receivers he faces. Likewise he lacks elite athleticism to stay with the top athletes at the receiver position. When he doesn't get a press at the line good receivers and QB that can lead their throws will take advantage of him.
    Dennard will also need to work on his hand usage downfield. In college in order to slow down the faster receivers he was able to use his hand all the way down field. This will be limited to only the first five yards off the line in the NFL. Dennard has some veteran savvy moves but he can also get a little grabby.


    Overall
    Dennard is a good but not great corner. His technique is on par with the top of his position in college. His play recognition is also good. Dennard however lacks the top end athletic skills to make him an elite prospect. He will likely be exposed in 1-on-1 man coverage without safety help and looks to fit a zone team that presses their corners well. Regardless of this Dennard is a football player. With his limitations Dennard shouldn't be picked until the second half of the first round. However a weak defensive draft will push him up.

  8. #58
    "He looks to fit a zone team that presses their corners well..."

    Sounds like the Steelers to me...

  9. #59
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    12,860
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    "He looks to fit a zone team that presses their corners well..."

    Sounds like the Steelers to me...
    I have no horse in this race but I agree with this... I want DB's who are comfortable playing zone. A great man to man DB who struggles in a zone is a waste of talent unless we let him play his game.

  10. #60
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,452
    Dennard excels in press...Tape shows it. His weaker game is off man, zone, or anytime he isn't pressing the guy off the LOS. That description doesn't fit the DL off man everyone complains about. It will be the same transition Lewis had to make coming out of Oregon State where he played man to man almost every play. Lewis showed more athletcism coming out so the transition could be difficult.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •