Combine Day Three (as it happens thread)

[Oviedo]

I disagree to a certain extent. The biggest thing keeping Lewis off the field until his last year was Keenan Lewis. He had shown ability and was poised to take the next step a couple of times. When that time came, his immaturity always crept in. He was projected to become a starter after McFadden and Gay left. He was getting beaten in a pre-season game and responded with bad penalties and punching out a stadium fixture. He hit the doghouse that day and did not re-appear until 2012. It was not a "system too difficult for young kids to learn" situation.

Worilds was kept off the field primarily by two (at the time) studs in front of him. He was behind a DMVP on one side, and a player earning a $50M contract on the other. There was no way that he was getting onto the field before they cleared the way. Then, when one spot finally opened, it was his bad side. If it was for the brittleness that has become Lamar Woodley the last few years, we wouldn't have seen much of anything out of the guy last year. He would have remained a 3-4 ROLB bust. Again, a case of having too much in front of him, which has been a hallmark of the Steeler Ds for many years until recently.

I will partially disagree. The Harrison and Woodley of 2011 and 2012 were not the dominant players they were in 2009 and 2010. There were plenty of reps that Worilds could have had instead of the "template" being rolled out.

[Rara]

Ryan Carrethers is a NT prospect who is moving pretty well, though his shorts are falling down constantly. I've seen too much of his crack. Forever unclean.

It's good to see Carrethers doing well...still really hope to draft him in the 5th or 6th. Sorry that you had to experience his ass crack a lot, Ruxin.

[NJ-STEELER]

Worilds was kept off the field primarily by two (at the time) studs in front of him. He was behind a DMVP on one side, and a player earning a $50M contract on the other. There was no way that he was getting onto the field before they cleared the way. Then, when one spot finally opened, it was his bad side. If it was for the brittleness that has become Lamar Woodley the last few years, we wouldn't have seen much of anything out of the guy last year. He would have remained a 3-4 ROLB bust. Again, a case of having too much in front of him, which has been a hallmark of the Steeler Ds for many years until recently.

the steelers knew that. so why spend a mid 2nd round pick to back those guys up?

[birtikidis]

A DE who runs as fast as a WR and he won't be on our draft board because of our 3-4. And people want to know why our defense has slipped when we leave so much talent out of consideration while we take cahances on conversion projects that maybe pan out 50% of the time. Just plain dumb.

Want to rebuild this defense fast then have one where we can keep a constant flow of talent coming in and challenging for playing time because they are in their natural positions they have played all through college versus speculating on what they could be converted to.

He won't be on our board because he's overrated, takes plays off, and only performs when he feels like it. He looks amazing one minute and then takes the rest of the day off. Amazing that he's doing the same thing at the combine. I don't want him. At all. Maybe in the 2nd.

[birtikidis]

the steelers knew that. so why spend a mid 2nd round pick to back those guys up?

Because Harrison was getting old and would need to be replaced maybe?

[hawaiiansteel]

Mayock: Pitt's Donald just as impressive as Clowney at combine

By Mike Huguenin
College Football 24/7 writer
Published: Feb. 24, 2014

NFL Media draft analyst Mike Mayock kept pace with defensive linemen and linebackers at the NFL Scouting Combine on a busy Monday -- a bit more than six on-air hours -- on the NFL Network. Here are some takeaways from Mayock:

1. Donald earns big grades
Pittsburgh defensive tackle Aaron Donald had a huge day. Donald ran well (a 4.68 clocking in the 40 -- at 285 pounds), showed well in the vertical (32 inches) and broad (9 feet, 8 inches) jumps and looked good in every drill. "I will put this day up ... with any defensive tackle [at the combine] in the last 10 years," Mayock said. Given Donald's weight, Mayock said his time in the 40 was "just as impressive" as Jadeveon Clowney's stunning 40-yard clocking. Mayock knows some scouts are worried about Donald's "lack of length and short arms" -- Donald is 6-foot-1 and his arm length is 32 5/8 inches -- but he discards those negatives. "He's as disruptive as can be," Mayock said.

2. Forget Clowney's 40 time
Clowney had the best 40 time among the defensive linemen, but while Mayock and NFL Network analyst Warren Sapp were impressed, they also said it didn't matter all that much. "It really doesn't matter what he runs; he's a freak," Mayock said. He also said Clowney's time was "more impressive than Chris Johnson's [4.24 clocking], given his size." Sapp, who was on the field near the 40-yard dash area, called Clowney's run "frightening." On the other hand, Mayock has said since the beginning of the combine that there are "red flags" about Clowney's work ethic, and he reiterated that point Monday, saying, "He turns it on, he turns it off." Sapp was equally adamant that there are issues. He said he had watched Clowney on tape, and he's "ashamed to look at it" because of inconsistent play. Sapp said the tape made you question whether Clowney truly "wanted to play this game." Sapp said there was "no aggressiveness, no hunt" from Clowney in a lot of the tape he had seen.

3. Sam a 'situational' player
Mayock said Missouri defensive end Michael Sam -- who led the SEC with 11.5 sacks and 19 tackles for loss -- is "explosive off the edge." But Sam measured 6-2 and 261 pounds at the combine weigh-in, and Mayock said that is "tweener size" -- too small to be an every-down end. But Mayock said Sam's problem is that he doesn't seem to have the necessary skill set to be a linebacker. "He lacks the ability to drop in coverage," Mayock said. Mayock reiterated a point he made during the weekend: Sam is a "situational pass rusher and core special-teamer." Mayock said he thinks Sam will go in the fifth round, "plus or minus" a round. "There are concerns in league circles about his lack of athleticism," Mayock said.

4. Barr not a top-10 pick
UCLA's Anthony Barr is Mayock's No. 3 linebacker, but Mayock doesn't think Barr is a top-10 pick. While Barr is a good pass rusher, Mayock said that "when he doesn't win with speed," he has issues. Mayock also said Barr also is best against the run as a chaser: "He's not real strong at the point of attack."

5. Mack is 'fluid and explosive'
Mayock has been saying for a few days that Buffalo outside linebacker Khalil Mack would be his No. 1 overall pick and called him "a fluid and explosive athlete" Monday. Mayock isn't the only guy who likes Mack, who set an NCAA career record with 16 forced fumbles and is tied for first in NCAA history with 75 tackles for loss. NFL Media draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah called Mack "explosive, dynamic and productive." He said if you were worried about Mack's level of competition, all you need to do is remember DeMarcus Ware's tape from when he played at Troy. Fellow analyst Charles Davis said Mack "plays with a violent edge to him," which is a good thing. "He will make somebody very happy very quickly," Davis said, in reference to Mack's potential as a rookie. Mack measured at 6-3 and 261 pounds and had a 40.5-inch vertical jump and ran a 4.65 40, which was tied for fourth-fastest among the linebackers.

6. Hageman can be a 3-4 DE
While Minnesota's Ra'Shede Hageman mostly played defensive tackle for the Gophers, who run a 4-3 set, he occasionally saw time at end, and Mayock thinks he could be an end in a 3-4 scheme in the NFL. Hageman ran a 5.02 in the 40, and Mayock said that was a "great time" for a 6-6, 310-pounder. "He's as athletic as can be," Mayock said. "The questions with him are about the inconsistency on tape." As an example, Mayock said, Hageman was great against Nebraska but basically invisible against Michigan. He has a chance to be a first-round pick.

7. Princeton DT has potential
Mayock likes Princeton defensive tackle Caraun Reid, saying, "He probably will be the highest-drafted Ivy Leaguer in years." In the past 10 drafts, no Ivy Leaguer has been taken before the fourth round, and Mayock said Reid could go in the third or fourth round. Mayock said Reid has good explosion in the middle. "Forget the Ivy League thing -- this kid's got a chance to be a good player," Mayock said.

8. Jeffcoat's athleticism a concern
Texas defensive end Jackson Jeffcoat led the Big 12 with 13 sacks and was named the league's defensive player of the year. But he measured 6-foot-3 and 247 pounds at the combine weigh-in. At that size, Mayock said, he's too small for defensive end: "I don't think he can stand up and play outside linebacker," he said. Mayock also said Jeffcoat "needs to show more athletic ability than I saw on tape." Jeffcoat clocked a 4.63 in the 40 and had a 36-inch vertical jump.

9. Nix needs more consistency
Mayock serves as the color analyst on NBC's coverage of Notre Dame games during the season and thus has seen a lot of Irish nose tackle Louis Nix III. He has Nix -- who measured 6-2 and 331 pounds, about 20 fewer than his listed weight in 2013 at Notre Dame -- as his No. 1 defensive tackle and touts his "surprising short-area quickness." But Mayock said Nix needs to play with better leverage, and his concern is that Nix sometimes "plays too high." While he likes Nix a lot, Mayock said he "doesn't play with the same consistency" as Donald or Florida State tackle Timmy Jernigan. Sapp had some fun with Nix's nickname, "Irish Chocolate," after Nix clocked a 5.42 in the 40: "Irish Chocolate is molasses in the 40."

Quick hitters

Some quick Mayock takes on other players:

» Shepherd (W.Va.) defensive end Howard Jones: "He's an ideal 3-4 outside linebacker. ... He's a heck of an athlete." Jones measured 6-2 and 235 pounds and ran a 4.60 40, third-fastest among defensive ends.

» Florida State linebacker Telvin Smith: "He's 6-3 and 218, and he flies. ... He runs like a defensive back." He ran a 4.52 40-yard dash, second-fastest among linebackers; Boston College's Kevin Pierre-Louis ran 4.51. Mayock said Smith is a "natural" 4-3 weakside linebacker who should go in the second or third round.

» Oregon State defensive end Scott Crichton: "He's a poor man's Chris Long." Crichton is Mayock's No. 4 end.

» Missouri defensive end Kony Ealy: "I'm really impressed with him. I think he's a first-round pick." Mayock said Ealy was especially impressive against Texas A&M, which featured potential top-10 pick Jake Matthews at left offensive tackle.

» North Carolina defensive end Kareem Martin: "He can get skinny. He can get through small areas and make plays." Martin (6-6, 272) ran a 4.72 40 and had a 35 1/2-inch vertical jump.

» Alabama linebacker C.J. Mosley: "This is a top-10 kind of player." Mosley is Mayock's No. 2 linebacker, behind Mack but one spot ahead of Barr.

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000328861/article/mayock-pitts-donald-just-as-impressive-as-clowney-at-combine[/URL]

[NJ-STEELER]

Because Harrison was getting old and would need to be replaced maybe?

would LBs not be coming out 2/3 years later.

like say, when then drafted jarvis

[SS Laser]

would LBs not be coming out 2/3 years later.

like say, when then drafted jarvis

No because most time the Steelers take a college DE to convert to 3-4 OLB. It can take a year or 2 for even the really good ones most times. JJ was a good college 3-4 OLB and he still needs time. JH took some time but also had very good players in front of him. Also maybe Worilds was a BPA with a ton of value at that pick. Smart way to pick IMO. Plus who was on the roster to back up JH and Woodley then? Worilds was seen as needing a year or two at least. Also maybe the FO thought Worilds could be a really good ST player while he learned to play OLB. Was also good to have incase the starters got hurt. That did not work well till 2013. I also think Worilds was seen as JH replacement up till last season with Jones falling into there lap. Plus Worilds had not proved much up to 2013. Heck the FO tried to keep JH around in 2013. So yea they were NOT sold on Worilds.

[NJ-STEELER]

No because most time the Steelers take a college DE to convert to 3-4 OLB. It can take a year or 2 for even the really good ones most times. JJ was a good college 3-4 OLB and he still needs time. JH took some time but also had very good players in front of him. Also maybe Worilds was a BPA with a ton of value at that pick. Smart way to pick IMO. Plus who was on the roster to back up JH and Woodley then? Worilds was seen as needing a year or two at least. Also maybe the FO thought Worilds could be a really good ST player while he learned to play OLB. Was also good to have incase the starters got hurt. That did not work well till 2013. I also think Worilds was seen as JH replacement up till last season with Jones falling into there lap. Plus Worilds had not proved much up to 2013. Heck the FO tried to keep JH around in 2013. So yea they were NOT sold on Worilds.

IF woodley or harrison wnet down, lets not kid ourselves....the defense would suffer. either with wordlis backing them up (a 2nd round pick) or an arnold harrison (low key FA signing). which would put a big damper on the season

so why take a valuable draft pick and use it on a back up when there were other areas of the team that could use help

someone like a jimmy graham, sean lee, navaro bowman, morgan burnett, carlos dunlap,brandon spikes, charles brown, brandon lafell (all drafted after worldis) couldnt help this team more then someone backing up our star OLBs

[Slapstick]

Oh, second guessing!

So easy and fun, four years after the fact!