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Thread: Ben Works With Moye And Wheaton In SoCal

  1. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by K Train View Post
    You can draft a cordarelle patterson at 15, extremely high ceiling and low floor. Julio Jones had a high ceiling and low floor, but so did reggie williams, matt jones, braylon edwards, plaxico burress.

    Benjamin is 24, but hes a RS sophomore so you are right, hes kind of old for the steelers to take in the first. But as a prospect Im not sure guys like Hood, Heyward, Polamalu, Timmons are classified as "solid as they come". Polamalu is a perfect example of taking a player with superstar potential in the first but was still kind of a project
    You certainly can...but do the Steelers? No. The Steelers rarely gamble with a first round pick.
    2014 NFL Draft
    1) ​Darqueze Dennard-DB MSU
    2) Jordan Matthews-WR Vandy
    3) Chris Borland-ILB Wisconsin
    4) Caraun Reid, DT Princeton
    5) De'Anthony Thomas-RB Oregon
    5b) Ryan Carrethers-NT Arkansas State
    6) Jeff Janis-WR Saginow Valley State
    6b) Seantrel Henderson, OT MIami
    7) Colt Lyerla -TE Oregon

  2. #112
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    There was an article written about the WR at the Top of the class. I'm sure someone could post. Don't fall in love with Watkins over Evans, Lee, & Benjamin because of drop %. Watkins passes were in the neighborhood of 80% of his target under 5 yards (screens) & he has a low drop percentage. If I recall, Benjamins targets of over 20 was 70% & Evans & Lee were high too. Drop % increases with downfield targets. If you don't know that...Don't bang the table on drop %. If you are playing catch with the QB while your feet are set...An OL would have a good drop %.

    The combine will answer allot of questions. We will see the hand sizes & watch them through position drills. If Watkins struggles with downfield catches & body catches...His stock will drop. I am open to Evans & Benjamin in the 1st...Evans isn't that far ahead of Benjamin. I don't care about YAC or speed. I want a big body WR with NFL speed that is a hand catcher with a large catching radius. One that is open in single coverage. Evans & Benjamin fit that description. By the end of the combine...I may have Benjamin higher.
    1st (T-D) Kelvin Benjamin WR
    2nd Bradley Roby CB
    3a Kareem Martin DE
    3b C.J. Fiedorowicz TE
    4th Christian Jones LB
    5a Dri Archer RB
    5b Kevin Pierre-Louis LB
    6a Beau Allen NT
    6b Shaquille Richardson CB
    7th John Brown WR

  3. #113
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    Benjamin just turned 23 & Our 1st rd pick last year, Jarvis Jones, turned 24 during the season. I think the "age" thing is out the window. The difference between the two is you would expect a high pick at WR to get on the field his rookie year and give you some production.
    1st (T-D) Kelvin Benjamin WR
    2nd Bradley Roby CB
    3a Kareem Martin DE
    3b C.J. Fiedorowicz TE
    4th Christian Jones LB
    5a Dri Archer RB
    5b Kevin Pierre-Louis LB
    6a Beau Allen NT
    6b Shaquille Richardson CB
    7th John Brown WR

  4. #114
    JPN, if you are right you are right. I just don't see the Steelers reaching at 15 for a guy with potential. As of right now, I don't see any scouts putting him the middle of the first. If a guy like Dennard, Mosley, or even Ebron are there...Benjamin is a no go. Despite the most recent article I don't see the Steelers passing on a guy to solidify the secondary or the front 7 for a guy who might touch the ball 5 times a game...maybe. If I'm wrong...I'm wrong.
    2014 NFL Draft
    1) ​Darqueze Dennard-DB MSU
    2) Jordan Matthews-WR Vandy
    3) Chris Borland-ILB Wisconsin
    4) Caraun Reid, DT Princeton
    5) De'Anthony Thomas-RB Oregon
    5b) Ryan Carrethers-NT Arkansas State
    6) Jeff Janis-WR Saginow Valley State
    6b) Seantrel Henderson, OT MIami
    7) Colt Lyerla -TE Oregon

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    re-read my post to philly explaining my reasoning. It makes a ton of sense. I don't usually throw out ideas without thinking them through. And like I said, Wheaton was playing with a hand injury...or out with a hand injury...which effects your ability to get off the bump. Not to mention he was a rookie. There was something there the Steelers seen. So, just because he didn't show you what you wanted to see, doesn't mean it's out of the question the Steelers have a better feel for him. I'm not saying he is the guy or not. What I am saying is the Steelers may feel different than you despite his lack luster rookie season.


    It doesn't make sense Shawn. For the next 3 years...The Steelers WR position will be AB's big contract & Wheaton's rookie deal which never gets out $800k. Even with Cotchery here...There won't be alot of money tied up at WR. If a WR is picked at #15...He will have a contract for 4 years with a 5th year option. So they only place a decision has to be made is in 3 years on Wheaton. They aren't going to sit around & worry about what will happen. They need to add talent & a weapon they are missing. Money has absolutely NOTHING to do with WR in the 1st. If you were sitting here arguing about bringing in a big name FA at WR...Then I would be agreeing 100% with "money at the WR spot".


    I'm not going to argue what Wheaton will become because I hope he turns into something special. I'm just saying he was a disappointment & that feeling came before his injury. When healthy...Wheaton didn't show it. He was healthy the first 4 games and had 3 catches for 26 yards...All of which came in the loss to the Vikings. I understand the hand injury set him back but at any point in the regular season did you go "Wow...He is going to be special" ? You are correct...We can not know what the Coaches feel. All we have is what we saw. He showed us a little in preseason but you always have to take into account in preseason who he is playing against. Even if the Staff feels confident in Wheaton's abilities...They may not pass up the chance to draft a piece to the puzzle they need. I hope Wheaton becomes the equal to AB...But I also hope they draft a big body to fix what they are lacking.
    1st (T-D) Kelvin Benjamin WR
    2nd Bradley Roby CB
    3a Kareem Martin DE
    3b C.J. Fiedorowicz TE
    4th Christian Jones LB
    5a Dri Archer RB
    5b Kevin Pierre-Louis LB
    6a Beau Allen NT
    6b Shaquille Richardson CB
    7th John Brown WR

  6. #116
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    Steelers indicated to Ben Roethlisberger they intend to draft a 'tall' receiver in the first or second round

    By Neal Coolong on Feb 12 2014



    Ben Roethlisberger needs someone else tall like him around in Pittsburgh.

    Gerry Dulac of the Post Gazette dropped an interesting tidbit in his weekly chat Wednesday. Ben may finally get his highly drafted tall receiver.

    Big Ben want tall receiver.

    That's been slogged around for nearly a decade now, ever since Ben Roethlisberger fueled Hines Ward's fire after the departure of pre-penitentiary Plaxico Burress by mentioning he wants a "tall" receiver - apparently Ward's 6-foot-1 wasn't tall enough.

    Now, amid contract extension speculation, there's some indication those talks may be underway. Post Gazette reporter Gerry Dulac let rip some of that spec Wednesday from his weekly chat on the paper's web site.

    "I think they will stick with what they have, plus draft a tall receiver in the first or second round," Dulac wrote in response to a question regarding Sanders. "I think they will let Sanders leave in free agency for a number of reasons and are perfectly comfortable thinking Markus Wheaton will not only replace him, but also be a much better receiver.

    Fairly vanilla. But he reveals something in an "I wasn't supposed to give specifics, so I'll say it generally instead" kind of way.

    "Their intent is to take a tall receiver early - they have already indicated that to Ben Roethlisberger - another indication that Sanders will be gone."

    This smacks of contract concession. It's not a trade, Mr. Rapoport, it's a tall receiver Roethlisberger wants. And according to Dulac, the Steelers appear ready to give it to him. What else would have brought about such a conversation?

    That brings the topic of conversation back to the likes of Mike Evans or Kelvin Benjamin around the 15th pick. Throw in some Jordan Matthews or Penn State's Allen Robinson for the late first/early second round, and, like Carl Weathers, you've got a nice stew goin'.

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...iver-prospects

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    JPN, if you are right you are right. I just don't see the Steelers reaching at 15 for a guy with potential. As of right now, I don't see any scouts putting him the middle of the first. If a guy like Dennard, Mosley, or even Ebron are there...Benjamin is a no go. Despite the most recent article I don't see the Steelers passing on a guy to solidify the secondary or the front 7 for a guy who might touch the ball 5 times a game...maybe. If I'm wrong...I'm wrong.


    I agree with you..They won't reach for a guy with potential. That is up to them to figure out through the process. The are several places that have Benjamin in the middle of the 1st & he could go either way after the combine. If the BPA at #15 is on the defensive side...I'm sure that will be the pick. Out of that list of 4 right now...I have Mosley higher. The only CB I would take at #15 is Gilbert. Not high on Dennard...I have to see him at the combine. Don't think the Steelers will have Ebron graded out that high due to flex TE & system. As you could see from my mock, I have Benjamin graded in a trade down but that could change after combine.
    1st (T-D) Kelvin Benjamin WR
    2nd Bradley Roby CB
    3a Kareem Martin DE
    3b C.J. Fiedorowicz TE
    4th Christian Jones LB
    5a Dri Archer RB
    5b Kevin Pierre-Louis LB
    6a Beau Allen NT
    6b Shaquille Richardson CB
    7th John Brown WR

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    There was an article written about the WR at the Top of the class. I'm sure someone could post. Don't fall in love with Watkins over Evans, Lee, & Benjamin because of drop %. Watkins passes were in the neighborhood of 80% of his target under 5 yards (screens) & he has a low drop percentage. If I recall, Benjamins targets of over 20 was 70% & Evans & Lee were high too. Drop % increases with downfield targets. If you don't know that...Don't bang the table on drop %. If you are playing catch with the QB while your feet are set...An OL would have a good drop %.

    The combine will answer allot of questions. We will see the hand sizes & watch them through position drills. If Watkins struggles with downfield catches & body catches...His stock will drop. I am open to Evans & Benjamin in the 1st...Evans isn't that far ahead of Benjamin. I don't care about YAC or speed. I want a big body WR with NFL speed that is a hand catcher with a large catching radius. One that is open in single coverage. Evans & Benjamin fit that description. By the end of the combine...I may have Benjamin higher.
    Only problem is our O seemed to improve when we went with quick releases... I think that will continue until the OL proves they can protect Ben.

  9. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post

    It doesn't make sense Shawn. For the next 3 years...The Steelers WR position will be AB's big contract & Wheaton's rookie deal which never gets out $800k. Even with Cotchery here...There won't be alot of money tied up at WR. If a WR is picked at #15...He will have a contract for 4 years with a 5th year option. So they only place a decision has to be made is in 3 years on Wheaton. They aren't going to sit around & worry about what will happen. They need to add talent & a weapon they are missing. Money has absolutely NOTHING to do with WR in the 1st. If you were sitting here arguing about bringing in a big name FA at WR...Then I would be agreeing 100% with "money at the WR spot".


    I'm not going to argue what Wheaton will become because I hope he turns into something special. I'm just saying he was a disappointment & that feeling came before his injury. When healthy...Wheaton didn't show it. He was healthy the first 4 games and had 3 catches for 26 yards...All of which came in the loss to the Vikings. I understand the hand injury set him back but at any point in the regular season did you go "Wow...He is going to be special" ? You are correct...We can not know what the Coaches feel. All we have is what we saw. He showed us a little in preseason but you always have to take into account in preseason who he is playing against. Even if the Staff feels confident in Wheaton's abilities...They may not pass up the chance to draft a piece to the puzzle they need. I hope Wheaton becomes the equal to AB...But I also hope they draft a big body to fix what they are lacking.
    When Brown is 29, the rookie if he earns his first round draft status will be looking for a big pay day. That is nearing the end of Browns contract. That's two WRs getting #1 WR pay. If the Steelers wanted to do that...they would have kept Wallace. While you may have saved a few bucks on the front end by releasing Wallace, it cost you a first round draft pick (that's if we go with your plan). Now you say the Steelers don't worry about those kinds of things. I say they would be ignorant not to. A forward thinking organization thinks ahead. When making business decisions for our business I think 1-5 years into the future. I speculate based on best known information at the time. The Steelers do the same.

    I suggest the Steelers don't want two #1 WRs...certainly not if they have to pay for them. They want a guy who is a competent #2, which suggest Sanders might get re-signed. But, to devote a first rounder to the WR position means they made a mistake by letting Wallace go.
    Last edited by Shawn; 02-17-2014 at 03:38 PM.
    2014 NFL Draft
    1) ​Darqueze Dennard-DB MSU
    2) Jordan Matthews-WR Vandy
    3) Chris Borland-ILB Wisconsin
    4) Caraun Reid, DT Princeton
    5) De'Anthony Thomas-RB Oregon
    5b) Ryan Carrethers-NT Arkansas State
    6) Jeff Janis-WR Saginow Valley State
    6b) Seantrel Henderson, OT MIami
    7) Colt Lyerla -TE Oregon

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    When Brown is 29, the rookie if he earns his first round draft status will be looking for a big pay day. That is nearing the end of Browns contract. That's two WRs getting #1 WR pay. If the Steelers wanted to do that...they would have kept Wallace. While you may have saved a few bucks on the front end by releasing Wallace, it cost you a first round draft pick (that's if we go with your plan). Now you say the Steelers don't worry about those kinds of things. I say they would be ignorant not to. A forward thinking organization thinks ahead. When making business decisions for our business I think 1-5 years into the future. I speculate based on best known information at the time. The Steelers do the same.

    I suggest the Steelers don't want two #1 WRs...certainly not if they have to pay for them. They want a guy who is a competent #2, which suggest Sanders might get re-signed. But, to devote a first rounder to the WR position means they made a mistake by letting Wallace go.
    Brown would be released or we would let the young WR go after the first contract... all this would depend on the future of Ben.

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