Should the Steelers force Lebeau out?

[feltdizz]

The problem Rod is that it operates worse every year and yet nothing changes. You can't have it both ways and blame everything on the players when it goes wrong and then heap praises on a "genius" coach when it goes right. Any DC in the NFL can do a good job when he has all the right talent. It is the great ones who do great with less talent.

As I have said, as far as the players, do you really think a "legendary" def coord who has tremendous respect and status in the organization has no say on the players being brought in to play defense? Really?

All of this....

[squidkid]

1st 17th 10-6
1st 22nd 12-4
5th 7th 9-7
2nd 14th 12-4
1st 12th 12-4
1st 21st 8-8
13th 20th 8-8

the first column represents the steelers overall ranking on defense(yards allowed) the second offense(yards gained) and the third, the steelers regular season record.
these are all under tomlin.

one time in this seven year span the defense was ranked out of the top 10.
only once was the offense in the top ten.
so lets run DL out because his scheme doesnt work.
lets only use the 'stability' theory on tomlin when it comes to coaching although his product has been on a downward sprial much longer than DL.
lets draft all defense because ummm, because the offense is worse than the defense and has been every year but 1

oh, and lets give kirby an OC gig because he is a great RB coach and deserves it(because our rushing yards ranked 3, 23, 19, 11, 14, 26, and 27th).

im not happy watching all our draft picks do nothing on defense for a few years either, but its hard to argue that statistically this team wins because of DL defense.
his record here epitomizes legendary status and every person in the business agrees. talk about knee jerk reaction

[phillyesq]

Where does everybody get that Lebeau refuses to change his scheme? The Steelers played more than 50% of their snaps this year without a NT. They used Troy as an ILB in an attempt to mask deficiencies. They essentially utilized at 4-3 at times with Garvin at OLB.

Lebeau made a lot of changes, all to mask the talent issues on defense.

[Slapstick]

They also stopped having Ike follow the other team's #1 WR...both Ike and Cortez played better after that...

Gay had a good season regardless...

[pfelix73]

The answer to the question is this thread is obviously... NO. He's the best DC in the country- college or NFL. If you are getting an A in school, why would you trade it in for a B? Makes no sense...

[pfelix73]

Where does everybody get that Lebeau refuses to change his scheme? The Steelers played more than 50% of their snaps this year without a NT. They used Troy as an ILB in an attempt to mask deficiencies. They essentially utilized at 4-3 at times with Garvin at OLB.

Lebeau made a lot of changes, all to mask the talent issues on defense.

Yup. And he's done this not only in 2013, but in other years too. You never know what position Troy is playing, etc..

[phillyesq]

They also stopped having Ike follow the other team's #1 WR...both Ike and Cortez played better after that...

Gay had a good season regardless...

The fact that William Gay had a good season says a lot about Lebeau's ability to get the most production from the group that he had.

[SS Laser]

1st 17th 10-6
1st 22nd 12-4
5th 7th 9-7
2nd 14th 12-4
1st 12th 12-4
1st 21st 8-8
13th 20th 8-8

the first column represents the steelers overall ranking on defense(yards allowed) the second offense(yards gained) and the third, the steelers regular season record.
these are all under tomlin.

one time in this seven year span the defense was ranked out of the top 10.
only once was the offense in the top ten.
so lets run DL out because his scheme doesnt work.
lets only use the 'stability' theory on tomlin when it comes to coaching although his product has been on a downward sprial much longer than DL.
lets draft all defense because ummm, because the offense is worse than the defense and has been every year but 1

oh, and lets give kirby an OC gig because he is a great RB coach and deserves it(because our rushing yards ranked 3, 23, 19, 11, 14, 26, and 27th).

im not happy watching all our draft picks do nothing on defense for a few years either, but its hard to argue that statistically this team wins because of DL defense.
his record here epitomizes legendary status and every person in the business agrees. talk about knee jerk reaction

Interesting that 1/22 ends up 12-4 one season and 1/21 ends up 8-8. As with all stats it is not clear determination of winning/losing.

[sick beats]

1st 17th 10-6
1st 22nd 12-4
5th 7th 9-7
2nd 14th 12-4
1st 12th 12-4
1st 21st 8-8
13th 20th 8-8

the first column represents the steelers overall ranking on defense(yards allowed) the second offense(yards gained) and the third, the steelers regular season record.
these are all under tomlin.

one time in this seven year span the defense was ranked out of the top 10.
only once was the offense in the top ten.
so lets run DL out because his scheme doesnt work.
lets only use the 'stability' theory on tomlin when it comes to coaching although his product has been on a downward sprial much longer than DL.
lets draft all defense because ummm, because the offense is worse than the defense and has been every year but 1

oh, and lets give kirby an OC gig because he is a great RB coach and deserves it(because our rushing yards ranked 3, 23, 19, 11, 14, 26, and 27th).

im not happy watching all our draft picks do nothing on defense for a few years either, but its hard to argue that statistically this team wins because of DL defense.
his record here epitomizes legendary status and every person in the business agrees. talk about knee jerk reaction

And time marches on. Just because his past work was fantastic, doesn't mean - at 75 years old - he is still one of the best DC out there. How come no one adds that to the equation? His system fools no one. It seems every team is prepared for it. No sacks anymore.

[papillon]

Where does everybody get that Lebeau refuses to change his scheme? The Steelers played more than 50% of their snaps this year without a NT. They used Troy as an ILB in an attempt to mask deficiencies. They essentially utilized at 4-3 at times with Garvin at OLB.

Lebeau made a lot of changes, all to mask the talent issues on defense.

I agree, now if you want to give him a hard time for not being able to help evaluate the college talent then I'm on board, otherwise, I can't support just running him out of town because he's 76 years old. There is absolutely no empirical evidence that he can't keep up with the physical demands of the job, that he's forgetting things, that he's not putting in the appropriate hours in the film room or devising game plans, etc., until someone can show me proof that his mental capacity and energy level aren't what it needs to be, he can stay as far as I'm concerned.

And, if you don't like YPG as a criteria, here are the defensive rankings from 2007 through 2013 in points allowed (which, for me is the best measure of a defense).

2007 - 2nd
2008 - 1st
2009 - 12th
2010 - 1st
2011 - 1st
2012 - 6th
2013 - 14th

Out of the top 10 in scoring twice not too shabby and even this year as it appeared they were getting torched they still end up 14th. I can't imagine what a defense that is ranked 20th or 21st, etc must look like.

Pappy