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Thread: Should the Steelers force Lebeau out?

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyesq View Post
    I don't care whether Dick Lebeau, Keith Butler, the guy in Seattle or Vince Lombardi's ghost is coaching the defense. At some point, you need talent.

    The post to which I was responding complained that certain vets weren't benched. It's the old complaint about not playing young players for the sake of youth. My point, in responding - who the hell were you going to plug in? Ike Taylor struggled a bit, but should the Steelers have thrown in Isaiah Green? Jacksonville castoff Antwon Blake? Some guys stink, regardless of whether they are young or old.
    Honestly... I think you COULD put another guy in for IKE without a big drop off and he may actually catch a few INT's. I think Ike is over paid and over valued.

  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    SF, Seattle, Carolina...

    here is the thing, it isn't just about pro bowls or a D filled with rookies....

    It's the whole "if I had my choice I would let them learn from the vets and slowly step into it as they become real comfortable"

    Teams will have holes, teams will have injuries and it appears that other teams are able to put in rookies and get decent production when they fill in. Carolina had a few rookies in their backfield for a few games and they played very good ball. I also think the 3-4 complex zone makes it much harder to come in and have an impact or play solid ball due to all the responsibilities....

    Maybe it's the 4-3 that makes it easier but that's the point.. these other teams get pressure with 4 guys and have a much easier time selecting players who can play earlier and at a much faster speed.

    IMO the problem is we need Woodleys to be a great D. I think other teams are doing a better job finding late rounders who can play immediately.
    No rookies on the Seahawks starting D this year, and 1 on the 49ers, a first round pick. Most of the rest of the 49ers are seasoned vets with 6+ years. Seattle is younger.

    You are now saying that the problem on defense is that "we need Woodleys"??? You need somebody to rush the passer, and there is a premium on pass rushers.

  3. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    Honestly... I think you COULD put another guy in for IKE without a big drop off and he may actually catch a few INT's. I think Ike is over paid and over valued.
    So your plan for next year is to start Isaiah Green or Antwon Blake? You think that's what the Steelers should have done last year?

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyesq View Post
    No rookies on the Seahawks starting D this year, and 1 on the 49ers, a first round pick. Most of the rest of the 49ers are seasoned vets with 6+ years. Seattle is younger.

    You are now saying that the problem on defense is that "we need Woodleys"??? You need somebody to rush the passer, and there is a premium on pass rushers.
    San Fran's defense just didn't get good this year. They have been good for several years.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  5. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    San Fran's defense just didn't get good this year. They have been good for several years.
    They have been, and its a veteran group. Aside from Reid, the only guy with less than 5-6 years is I believe Aldon Smith, unless there is a 4 year veteran that I'm forgetting.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyesq View Post
    So your plan for next year is to start Isaiah Green or Antwon Blake? You think that's what the Steelers should have done last year?
    Actually, the reason the young guys are scrubs is because they don't draft CBs high enough to have a chance to be quality starters. When you go all bargain basement with your CBs, you are most likely to end up with guys who don't cut it. Curtis Brown is just terrible. I know Sherman for Seattle was taken in the 5th, but that is the exception, not the rule. Pgh has mostly taken their CBs late for the last 2 decades. Even Ike was a 4th rounder. You can't always make lemonade out of lemons. It's nice when you can, but it isn't the norm.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by sick beats View Post
    Actually, the reason the young guys are scrubs is because they don't draft CBs high enough to have a chance to be quality starters. When you go all bargain basement with your CBs, you are most likely to end up with guys who don't cut it. Curtis Brown is just terrible. I know Sherman for Seattle was taken in the 5th, but that is the exception, not the rule. Pgh has mostly taken their CBs late for the last 2 decades. Even Ike was a 4th rounder. You can't always make lemonade out of lemons. It's nice when you can, but it isn't the norm.
    We draft CBs late because we arent asking them to play man to man all day... its mostly zone. I'm fine with it as long as the front 7 are getting pressure but lately it hasn't worked out so well with our front 7.

  8. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    The problem Rod is that it operates worse every year and yet nothing changes. You can't have it both ways and blame everything on the players when it goes wrong and then heap praises on a "genius" coach when it goes right. Any DC in the NFL can do a good job when he has all the right talent. It is the great ones who do great with less talent.

    As I have said, as far as the players, do you really think a "legendary" def coord who has tremendous respect and status in the organization has no say on the players being brought in to play defense? Really?
    O i understand your perspective and i respect it. What i am saying is,...even if we switched to a 4-3 and brought in some supposed young maverick D coordinator,....we would still remain awful because of our current draft philosophy. And i do not believe at all that Coach Lebeau's opinion, input and wishes are actually heeded on draft day with any higher round picks. This is obvious.

    As long as this man has been running this system do you really believe he would have selected Lawrence Timmons, Ziggy Hood, Sean Spence, or Jason Worilds to play in a 3-4 defense if it was entirely up to him ?

    Do you really think if it was entirely up to him that he would say,...

    "Yeah,....i really don't need a true NT and highly self motivated, athletic, yet explosive and aggressive OLB's with good size and or strength to run a 3-4. And while i am at it,...fork the ILB position ! What this team reeeeallly needs to be successful is a handful of tiny and or inconsistent yet "splashy" receivers, a 'looks like Tarzan plays like Jane spin move afraid of contact' big ten RB and a bunch of utility type players at whatever position the dart lands on on the board in the War Room.!" smh

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Polamalu View Post
    O i understand your perspective and i respect it. What i am saying is,...even if we switched to a 4-3 and brought in some supposed young maverick D coordinator,....we would still remain awful because of our current draft philosophy. And i do not believe at all that Coach Lebeau's opinion, input and wishes are actually heeded on draft day with any higher round picks. This is obvious.

    As long as this man has been running this system do you really believe he would have selected Lawrence Timmons, Ziggy Hood, Sean Spence, or Jason Worilds to play in a 3-4 defense if it was entirely up to him ?

    Do you really think if it was entirely up to him that he would say,...

    "Yeah,....i really don't need a true NT and highly self motivated, athletic, yet explosive and aggressive OLB's with good size and or strength to run a 3-4. And while i am at it,...fork the ILB position ! What this team reeeeallly needs to be successful is a handful of tiny and or inconsistent yet "splashy" receivers, a 'looks like Tarzan plays like Jane spin move afraid of contact' big ten RB and a bunch of utility type players at whatever position the dart lands on on the board in the War Room.!" smh
    Whaaaat the hell are you babbling about? Lebeau LOVES Timmons...

    We will never draft 7 or 8 defensive players in a draft but the ones we choose definitely have DL's approval. Do we have a 76 year old legend HOF DC who sits at home doing needle point waiting to hear who we drafted?

    Do you honestly beliveve DL has been here this long with ZERO influence over our draft board? If so... please log off.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    "The formula for us has been to get these guys and let them get assimilated into the defense and watch the veterans run it. Invariably, there have been situations where they've had to play and they've always done a pretty good job as Jarvis has done. If I had my choice I'd let him learn from the veterans and let them step into it as they become real comfortable in the defense." - Dick Lebeau

    This is why some have a problem with Lebeau...

    Where you see a problem, I see a model for consistency. Corporate America does it everyday, all day. Young engineer works alongs side 'aged vet', learn the ropes. Leads to less mistakes, more consistency, better product.

    Where we have the most problems? young guy is assign project, no mentor, ends up floundering and in some cases demoralized from overcomplicated assignment.
    Last edited by NorthCoast; 01-29-2014 at 07:53 PM.

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