Should the Steelers force Lebeau out?

[feltdizz]

At first I thought it would be a bad idea if DL stayed on but the more I think about his age I think it would be good to keep him on the sideline but give Butler the DC title.

At his age I think he may pass if he doesn't stay involved...

[NorthCoast]

.....

We are picking players that we believe will fit our system... lack of talent isn't an acceptable excuse.

Really??

Mike Humpal - out of the NFL
Bruce Davis - out of the NFL
Rashon Harris - out of the NFL
Joe Burnett - out of the NFL

Those are draft picks that were expected to be contributing on this defense but couldn't even cut it in the league. I would say THAT is a lack of talent.

[NorthCoast]

1st 17th 10-6
1st 22nd 12-4
5th 7th 9-7
2nd 14th 12-4
1st 12th 12-4
1st 21st 8-8
13th 20th 8-8

the first column represents the steelers overall ranking on defense(yards allowed) the second offense(yards gained) and the third, the steelers regular season record.
these are all under tomlin.

one time in this seven year span the defense was ranked out of the top 10.
only once was the offense in the top ten.
so lets run DL out because his scheme doesnt work.
lets only use the 'stability' theory on tomlin when it comes to coaching although his product has been on a downward sprial much longer than DL.
lets draft all defense because ummm, because the offense is worse than the defense and has been every year but 1

oh, and lets give kirby an OC gig because he is a great RB coach and deserves it(because our rushing yards ranked 3, 23, 19, 11, 14, 26, and 27th).

im not happy watching all our draft picks do nothing on defense for a few years either, but its hard to argue that statistically this team wins because of DL defense.
his record here epitomizes legendary status and every person in the business agrees. talk about knee jerk reaction

I agree. These comments about the long decay of the defense are unfounded. Some observers need to put down the Steelers glasses and take a look at the consistency of other defenses. So SEA and SF now appear at the top of the stats, apparently they now have the secret formula for the "modern NFL". And they have been at the top all of what??. two years??

Meh, ....draft good to above average players and this defense will return to its familiar defensive ranking as it was just two years ago. When the talent isn't there, scheme is the only way to equalize opponent. Average talent with a simplified defense will be crushed against a top offense in the NFL.

Plus there is the assumption that LeBeau has lost his 'edge' in gameplanning, adjustments because he is "too old". Need I remind you the Detroit game and the complete 2nd half shutdown of the Lions offense?

[feltdizz]

Really??

Mike Humpal - out of the NFL
Bruce Davis - out of the NFL
Rashon Harris - out of the NFL
Joe Burnett - out of the NFL

Those are draft picks that were expected to be contributing on this defense but couldn't even cut it in the league. I would say THAT is a lack of talent.

I repeat... WE are picking players we believe will fit our system. Every team drafts a few guys who aren't NFL worthy.

[feltdizz]

I agree. These comments about the long decay of the defense are unfounded. Some observers need to put down the Steelers glasses and take a look at the consistency of other defenses. So SEA and SF now appear at the top of the stats, apparently they now have the secret formula for the "modern NFL". And they have been at the top all of what??. two years??

Meh, ....draft good to above average players and this defense will return to its familiar defensive ranking as it was just two years ago. When the talent isn't there, scheme is the only way to equalize opponent. Average talent with a simplified defense will be crushed against a top offense in the NFL.

Plus there is the assumption that LeBeau has lost his 'edge' in gameplanning, adjustments because he is "too old". Need I remind you the Detroit game and the complete 2nd half shutdown of the Lions offense?

First off.. it isnt a secret. Draft players and plug them in early and let them do what they do best.

Rankings mean little... numbers can be skewed with one lopsided win. I don care where we are ranked if we are giving up critical 3rd and 9's that lose a game.

The assumption about DL is due to a bad run D, low sacks, no pressure and low turnovers. We have no cap space, old players with big contracts and a LB making big money in sweats. When you add a complex D that takes years to master people start to wonder if we need to change things.


Oh, and everyone shut down the Lions in the second half of the season...

What about Miami...at home... in the snow... in a must win game?

[pittpete]

So if LeBeau is still our DC in 3 years and the defense doesnt improve will posters still quote his rankings from 6 years ago?

[NorthCoast]

First of all, let's not throw around the defensive rankings, over what we all watch on a weekly basis. Yes, I suppose statistically, we ranked #1 the season before this one. But let's be real: not one among us would call last year's defense even very good (at best, some might say it was above average).

So let's not pretend that anyone is making a knee-jerk reaction, by questioning whether a 75 year-old man (in a young man's world) is the best man for the job. And while I'll agree that his decline has mirrored a decline in talent (i.e. team speed on defense, which results in a glaring lack of turnovers), pretending that age isn't a factor only gives us more problems. It is like saying, "Troy Polamalu has made the Pro Bowl in 2010, 2011, and 2013... we have nothing to worry about at SS."

His record (i.e. ranking) would indicate that he is still at the top of his craft. But we all know, that he is in decline as a player and athlete. Yet for whatever reason, we refuse to believe it in this case. It is sad to say because, we also know that when old people lose the thing that drives them, they die. So I realize that it is a dicey road, especially because the man still can coach. I just think Butler is a better candidate for the job right now, and it probably isn't even close.

The problem is your observations are biased by your "historical" views of the Steelers defense. Watch some other NFL games. Offenses are completing passes against defenses all day long, every weekend. Half the NFL's QBs are throwing for 4000 yds in a season with regularity when just a few years ago this was a milestone reserved for only the top tier. Seattle for all it's great defense, was down to the last minute of the game with possibly not moving on to the SB. It took a great individual play. That was talent, it wasn't scheme. Steelers have a dearth of talent and it is hurting them on defense. And if you don't use stats, the 'eye test' is nothing more than an opinion. Funny how the stats seemed to agree with the eye test back in 2008 when the Steelers had one of the best all time defenses. My eyes tell me the Steelers were a few plays away from making it to the playoffs once again. My eyes tell me the defense had rookies missing plays, a rookie MLB trying but overmatched and out of position. My eyes tell me the Steelers had no solution for NT. My eyes tell me the Steelers might be able to field a mediocre 4-3 given their current roster, but some think it will be the be all end all.

[papillon]

Honestly Pappy.. I don't think a 20th or 21st D "appears" much worse than ours. You said it best... last year we "appeared" top have a bad D and somehow we still managed to be 14th. Now, is it because we weren't as bad as we thought or was it because we played great D vs a few bad teams to push our ranking up a bit?

I don't have that answer but IMO if something appears to look bad it's because it IS bad. Being 14th isn't Steeler D.

14th...23.1
20th...24.2

IMO that stat doesn't hold much weight... I prefer the eye test and if I see this D playing subpar ball I can't find one stat that will make me believe this D was better than what I witnessed on the field.

I think the 14th ranked defense "appeared" to be bad, because we are so accustomed to seeing a top 5 defense that when we actually saw a mediocre defense that it looked like a bottom third defense, that's what I meant by it "appeared" to be bad. It was bad relative to what we are accustomed to, we're spoiled fans and have been for a long time.

The past two years prove it, 8-8 twice in a row and the fans want Tomlin's head, Haley's head and Lebeau's head, that's what lesser teams do when they hit a rocky patch, they fire coaches and spend big in FA. The Steelers don't and hopefully, won't do either of those things, they have a model, it's been successful and I hope they stick with it.

Pappy

[squidkid]

Even if we stay in the 3-4 we only have a few more years with DL. Seems like the perfect time to replace DL since we are rebuilding.

then it would also be the right time to get our cap in order, meaning releasing ike, troy, woodley, smith and timmons. pouncey and miller too

[squidkid]

So if LeBeau is still our DC in 3 years and the defense doesnt improve will posters still quote his rankings from 6 years ago?

sure.
people defend tomlin by saying 'he's never had a losing season' and 'he took us to 2 superbowls' even tho this team hasnt won a playoff games in 4 years or been in them for a couple