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Thread: Should the Steelers force Lebeau out?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    How is Jarvis Jones lack of pass rushing skills the fault of DL's scheme? How is Hood getting pushed around DL's fault? How is Worilds not passing Harrison and Woodley on the depth chart DL's fault?

    I think the DL criticism is just silly. We're just in a transition and we haven't brought in any stud players on the D since Troy or James. Get some talent and DL will be fine.
    So if it's really all about the players and not the coach, I guess it doesn't matter who we have coach the defense then It's obviously really been all about the players.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    So if it's really all about the players and not the coach, I guess it doesn't matter who we have coach the defense then It's obviously really been all about the players.
    same goes for the head coach
    1) CB D Dennard
    2) OLB R Shazier
    3) DE J Ellis
    4) WR M Bryant
    5a) OG D Yankey
    5b) OLB J Tripp
    6a) RB D Archer
    6b) NT D McCullers
    7) WR J Janis

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidkid View Post
    same goes for the head coach
    If you follow your logic
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    DL is what is holding the players back and is why we lose players like Keenan Lewis and potentially Worilds who don't get a chance to play until their contract year. You need a defense that can keep a steady flow of young players coming in and getting a chance to produce to immediately to be successful in the salary cap driven league. That means they need to be in a defense that is easy to understand. Just look how young the best defenses are in Seattle and San Fran and the 2 and 3 year players who are staring in those defenses and have been for a couple years.

    Who do we really fool with our complexity other than our own players. The steadily decreasing numbers for sacks and INTs and the increasing number of "big plays" indicate we aren't fooling many of our opponents and haven't for several years now. And if you want to bury your head in the sand and blame it all on the players, ask yourself how good is a system really if it only can work with the exact perfect combination of players? Can you keep that exact perfect combination of players in a salary cap driven league? You need a system that is flexible that can be adjusted to the strengths of the players you really have not the ones you wish you had. DL has demonstrated he can't or won't do that.

    And for those who want to blame Colbert and Tomlin for the players, do you really think that a so-called "legendary" coach, member of the Hall of Fame and cpoach who has the status he does in this organization has no say with regards to the defensive players we draft or sign as free agents. If so, bury your head deeper into the sand Mr Ostrich.
    Dick Lebeau isn't holding back players, they have to prove they belong on the field. You look at Lewis now and think it was Lebeau that held him back, when he got his chances early he failed physically and mentally and then when he got his act together and Lebeau played him, he played great, so great that his home town team offered him a contract that the Steelers were incapable of matching and even if they did he would have gone home.

    The same with Worilds he has had every opportunity to prove himself and couldn't. When he finally did the Steelers had already made plans for the future. Now the Steelers are hamstrung with the salary cap and are going to have a hard time signing Worilds. I'm not sure 8 good games is enough to give him a boatload of dough. He had opportunity and didn't seize the moment.

    Lewis and Worilds were given opportunity and didn't take advantage of it when it was given to them. It's unfortunate, because as a fan, I'd love to have Lewis on the roster and be able to sign Worilds, chances are Worilds isn't going to be a Steeler either.

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  5. #15
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    The short answer is yes

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel View Post
    There are many decisions to be made regarding the defense this off season, namely what to do with the hefty contracts of Lamar Woodley (thanks Colbert!) and Troy Polamalu, who we know refuses to take a pay cut. Add in free agents to be Ryan Clark, Ziggy Hood, Brett Keisel and Jason Worilds and there is reason to be concerned about the future of the Steelers defense. The biggest question may be what will Lebeau do and what should the team do about LeBeau. Should they ask him to step down for the good of the team? As I said and as we all know, they do not like to make changes in the staff unless forced to. And even though he turned down the Titans’ offer, how much longer can a guy like Butler stick around? Those in the know have said for a while that Butler would make a good DC, heck even giving Lake a shot would be good. But something tells me that unless something dramatic happens, LeBeau will be back in 2014. And so will a mediocre defense.

    http://nicepickcowher.com/2014/01/23...-force-lebeau/
    Troy refusing a cut is disheartening, but he can at least make the case that he is worth it. (He BETTER play up to it next year.) But because of it (partly), all of those free agents mentioned must go: Hood, Worilds, Clark, Keisel.

    As for Lebeau, it isn't as straightforward as stated. The guy is class, and he needs to be treated as such. And if you give him Seattle's roster, he (of course) can still be considered a great coordinator. But when the talent isn't Seattle-like, the value of the coordinator's ability goes up. In other words, he's gotta make chicken salad out of chicken feathers. At his age, he can't do that.

    It is all just talk, because he isn't going anywhere. What we need to focus on, is bringing a fundamental building block on our defense, from this year's draft. We need an attitude adjustment player, not only just a good player. We don't need a Lawrence Timmons (solid cog), we need a Greg Lloyd (someone who brings a change in culture).

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    So, when LeBeau won't play young players, he's a hindrance...and when he does (Jones) and the player isn't All-Pro, LeBeau is "holding him back"?

    Sure, that makes sense...
    I agree, and said as much in an earlier post. DL cannot win..... kinda like answering the question: so when did you stop beating your wife?......

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    So if it's really all about the players and not the coach, I guess it doesn't matter who we have coach the defense then It's obviously really been all about the players.
    It's mostly about the player's ability to execute. The team ended up at 8-8 because the players made to many mistakes on the field.

  8. #18
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    Its not just about playing young guys earlier... its about playing them earlier without the encyclopedia sized playbook confusing them.

    It would be nice to see a rookie come in and have an impact like Wallace, Bell, Pouncey, Sanders, Holmes had on offense?

    When was the last time a rookie had an impact on a DL defense? Woodley is the only name I can think of.... That is the why most fans are frustrated with our "scheme"... it requires a few years and in this new NFL we don't have that extra time.

    I'm sorry but we need to find a Kuechly, Willis, etc... first year impact player on D. If we draft a DB or LB its going to take the typical 2 to 3 years before we see them play full speed. It would be nice to see a guy come in a play full speed on day 1.

  9. #19
    Williams, Jones and the Shark all played as rookies on D. Just none really played well. LeBeau isn't going to dumb down the system for any rookie...we know that. So, either the FO is cool with that or they are not.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Williams, Jones and the Shark all played as rookies on D. Just none really played well. LeBeau isn't going to dumb down the system for any rookie...we know that. So, either the FO is cool with that or they are not.
    I think this is the million dollar question. FO could be cool and patient in the old NFL. If our D continues to struggle the next year or 2 then what? We have to play with the guys we have and if DL refuses to adjust he should be forced out.

    We are picking players that we believe will fit our system... lack of talent isn't an acceptable excuse.

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