Should the Steelers force Lebeau out?

[phillyesq]

We can agree to disagree but a two-down player won't help the pass defense.

We can agree that I would rather have a CB at #15 than Nix....along with a TE, a LT, a WR, or a S.

Ovi, just for you, from Cliff Avril:

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/30/cliff-avril-brandon-mebane-is-one-of-the-best-nose-guards-in-the-game/"]Avril: Mebane is “one of the best nose guards in the game”[/URL]

Posted by Mike Wilkening on January 30, 2014, 4:01 PM EST

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Defensive tackle [URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4367/brandon-mebane"]Brandon Mebane[/URL] has been one of the constants of the Pete Carroll era in Seattle.
Including the postseason, the 6-foot-1, 311-pound Mebane has started 62 consecutive games for the Seahawks. Player-rating servicePro Football Focus graded Mebane as the third-best defensive tackle of 2013 and ranked him second among run defenders along the interior line.
Seahawks defensive end [URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4834/cliff-avril"]Cliff Avril[/URL] believes Mebane is “underrated.”
“He’s definitely one of the best nose guards in the game, but he doesn’t get the recognition for whatever reason,” Avril told reporters on Thursday.
The 29-year-old Mebane wasn’t credited with a sack in the regular season, but PFF charted 26 hurries from the seventh-year pro from California, 14th-best among defensive tackles.
And as Avril observed, Mebane is adept at making life rather difficult for the center across from him.
“He makes the whole defense’s job easier,” Avril said. “. . . If the center can get to where he wants to go, it kind of hurts the team. For (Mebane) to be able to hold centers up and make plays – he makes everybody’s job easier.”

Even in a 4-3, there is room for, and need for, a nose guard that - gasp - occupies blockers.

[papillon]

Ovi, just for you, from Cliff Avril:



Even in a 4-3, there is room for, and need for, a nose guard that - gasp - occupies blockers.

Yup, can you say Ernie Holmes? He was the epitome of staying home, ensuring that draw plays and screens didn't get very far, occupy blockers, so that Lambert could make tackles, etc. How quickly we forget how necessary an occupier of blockers is to a defense, even a 4-3 and the greatest 4-3 that was ever assembled to boot.

Just sayin...

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

Ovi, just for you, from Cliff Avril:



Even in a 4-3, there is room for, and need for, a nose guard that - gasp - occupies blockers.

Don't forget Glenn Dorsey on the Niners. He has been an absolute beast as nose tackle. I think he had almost 90 tackles this season.

Much to my chagrin I will give Ovi some fodder for his 4-3 diatribe:

[URL]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/3-4-schemes-provide-challenges-for-NFL-teams-in-?urn=nfl,229833[/URL]

[URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/3-4-schemes-provide-challenges-for-NFL-teams-in-?urn=nfl,229833"]3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft[/URL]

By [URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner?author=Doug+Farrar"]Doug Farrar[/URL]

Every NFL team has its own theories and formulas when it comes to the science of the draft, but no matter how specific people get, there are certain positional and schematic issues that cause geniuses to look like goofballs. Basketball players become brilliant tight ends. Spread-offense quarterbacks put up historic numbers in college and can't even bust the CFL at the pro level. And the increasing number of NFL teams running 3-4 defenses find it more and more difficult to find key personnel in the draft, for one simple reason -- college teams don't run the 3-4 as their base defense very much.
In fact, of the 120 BCS teams, only three -- Alabama, Cal, and West Virginia -- run a full-time three-man front. That makes the accurate selection of specific players, especially two-gap nose tackles than can dominate the point of attack, more difficult. This is the case even though the 2010 class of defensive tackles may be the deepest ever. As college teams put forth their abilities to create NFL opportunities to recruits, you could see more teams making the switch. This schism was on the mind of more than one AFC coach during the media breakfast at the Owner's Meetings.
"I think that there are always a number of guys in that situation in the draft," Patriots coach Bill Belichick said of the "conversion ends", like Tennessee's Dan Williams, who are expected to move to nose at the pro level. "There are hardly any 3-4 teams in college football. Whoever plays on the end of the line, whether it's a linebacker, defensive end or a crash end, whatever you want to call them, those guys are going to play on the end of the line at the next level too. Figuring out who can do what, that's always a tough spot to break down in the draft."
And the "endbackers", 4-3 ends or outside linebackers who convert to edge rushers in 3-4-4 or 5-2-4 sets, are of equal importance -- something Belichick's been dealing with since his days coaching Lawrence Taylor under Bill Parcells in the 1980s. "It's a challenge, but again that's pretty much the way it's been you know going back to ... you could pick out most of those guys going back to Lawrence Taylor, and certainly [Mike] Vrabel, [Willie] McGinest, Chris Slade, [Rosevelt] Colvin, Tully [Banta-Cain], all those guys. Sure, it's a long list of them, guys who didn't play on their feet in college or played on their feet a minimal amount."
Dolphins head coach Tony Sparano knows all about the challenges of putting together a 3-4 front -- he's working around nose tackle [URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4029/"]Jason Ferguson's[/URL][URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4029/news"](notes)[/URL] eight-game suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy precisely because guys who do what Ferguson does are so hard to find. Even as a 35-year-old free agent sure to play only half a season, he's still an attractive option.
"From our standpoint, as you know, Jason Ferguson's a guy that's been very good for us," Sparano said. "When we were in Dallas as well, but very much so when we were here in Miami. Obviously, Jason has the suspension. We're not happy with that, but at the end of the day, it's something that we have to deal with. When Jason got hurt this year, our tongue would've been hanging out to find a player like Jason Ferguson sitting out there at that time. We couldn't find a player like that. To have the ability to have a player like that when he comes back off a suspension I think is a positive thing for us. Of course, Jason, I love him to death, but he's not a young guy. I would say that all these (3-4) positions are positions we'd consider addressing in the draft."
At the Combine, Jets coach Rex Ryan told me about the incredible value of two-gappers, and he was watching every move made by ginormous nose tackle Terrence Cody at Alabama's recent Pro Day. "That might be one of the toughest parts of a 3-4," Ryan said in Indianapolis. "Basically your nose tackle, unless you are always moving to nose, if you are playing a standard 3-4 defense, then you've got a two-gap responsibility which means you got to be able to play the front-side A-gap and the backside A-gap at the same time. You generally need a dominant individual there. And that is what you have like a[URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5491/"]Kris Jenkins[/URL][URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5491/news"](notes)[/URL], or a [URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/1800/"]Ted Washington[/URL][URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/1800/news"](notes)[/URL] many years ago in Buffalo was one of the best two-gappers I have ever seen. A guy has to be active, he has got to be able to stay on his feet, his technique on releasing off of blocks has got to be outstanding. If not, you are really going to struggle at that spot."

Last year, the Chiefs and Packers were among the teams switching to the 3-4. In 2010, the Bills and Redskins are making the leap. To get the best recruits, more college teams will catch up to the new trends. In the meantime, you'll see players with specific skill sets suitable for 3-4 fronts sitting in the proverbial catbird seat.

But if you can find a Mebane and Dorsey, you are going to have a good defense all around.

[Rod Polamalu]

Whaaaat the hell are you babbling about? Lebeau LOVES Timmons...

We will never draft 7 or 8 defensive players in a draft but the ones we choose definitely have DL's approval. Do we have a 76 year old legend HOF DC who sits at home doing needle point waiting to hear who we drafted?

Do you honestly beliveve DL has been here this long with ZERO influence over our draft board? If so... please log off.

Knock it off Dizz,...and just admit it,...yer boy Tomlin and Colbert (with 50% of control) are a two gun clusterfook in terms of personnel decisions. lol smh

[Oviedo]

Ovi, just for you, from Cliff Avril:



Even in a 4-3, there is room for, and need for, a nose guard that - gasp - occupies blockers.

So no reason not to go to the 4-3 because we have the players to make that work already here from our failing 3-4 defense.

[Oviedo]

Don't forget Glenn Dorsey on the Niners. He has been an absolute beast as nose tackle. I think he had almost 90 tackles this season.

Much to my chagrin I will give Ovi some fodder for his 4-3 diatribe:

[URL]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/3-4-schemes-provide-challenges-for-NFL-teams-in-?urn=nfl,229833[/URL]


But if you can find a Mebane and Dorsey, you are going to have a good defense all around.

Thanks NC, but it does empahasize the point I continually try to make. I loved our 3-4 when it was really working but it hasn't been for years and the trend was clear that it was running out of steam.

My point to those who actually read what I post on this subject has always been the ability to reload and the margin for error. Essentially, you have no margin for error in the 3-4 LeBeau wants because you are dependent on "hoping" that conversions of players to new position work. If even one fails it sets you back 2-3 years at that position. That is what has happened to us...IMO. The blame goes to bad drafting but the reality is that you enter a high risk proposition "projecting" what a player can "convert" to versus evaluating what he is really doing and has done in the college game. Bad strategy, again IMO, in a salary cap driven league and it is the reason we had to keep our players longer than we should of because we missed on so many conversions to back fill them.

My preference for the 4-3 has always been and will always be the belief that you have a deeper talent pool to harvest by leeting players play the positions they have always played and you have watched and evaluated them playing versus "projecting" how they will adapt. The adapting to the NFL is tough enough without adding another layer of complexity and risk on top of it. The more teams that convert to the 3-4 just increases the risk that you can get the right players because everyone is now looking for the same thing and the college game is still playing a different system in the 4-3. Remember, we got the talent from the mid-90s though 2005 because we were one of the few teams fishing in a shallow pool. Not many more people want to fish in that pool.

We'll probably stay with the 3-4 but expect more many more misses in the draft and cross your fingers that we are lucky enough to get just the right combination of players that is needed to make it work really well. That is also why I prefer we go offense early in the draft. We don't ask those players to change what gets them drafted and it is amore natural transition into the NFL. If you are going to knowingly spend 1-3 years changing a player from what he is then you can get that player later...again IMO.

[feltdizz]

Knock it off Dizz,...and just admit it,...yer boy Tomlin and Colbert (with 50% of control) are a two gun clusterfook in terms of personnel decisions. lol smh

I think you are the one who needs to admit a few things. LOL...

[Slapstick]

There are plenty of 4-3 defenses that positively suck...worse than our D...

And they draft in the very same draft that we do...