01-22-2014, 09:55 AM
Whoever we get in FA or the draft at DB won't play next year...
Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
I can almost guarantee that
Nix will start on day 1.. no doubt about it.
TE and WR's... pfft.. you can get those in the 3rd, 4th and 5th round.
01-22-2014, 12:32 PM
If they cut Ike & spend money on a starting CB...He will play. Even if Ike takes a paycut..His rapid decline witnessed in '13 doesn't automatically make him a starter. I would struggle to say Ike was the teams 2nd best CB by the end of the year because Gay was on his heels. Someone is going to take his spot in '14 because of his decline. Put it this way..If the Steelers did retain Lewis...Ike would have lost his starting spot. Period.
Originally Posted by feltdizz
Nix starting Day 1 has as much weight as JJ starting Day 1 last year or anytime someone says Day 1 starter & he sits on the bench. It is the Draft & nothing is certain. When we are talking defensive players...We know that story with the Steelers. The Top 2 picks in the draft last year only started 14 of 32 games. Top 5 42/80. Everyone could keep banging the table on the "starter day 1" theory. You are bound to hit one.
"TE and WR's... pfft.. you can get those in the 3rd, 4th and 5th round" That can be said for any position you have a debate with. Great NT can be found in the 3rd (Steed) & Great 3-4 DE can be found in the 4th (A Smith) & 7th (Keisel). That doesn't mean "you can get those" because it happens. That means you got great value because it worked out that way.
Give me the 15th or better most talented player coming out in the 1st regardless what side of the ball he plays on. Nix isn't in that class based on his tape compared to the others in this class. For me to consider him Top 20 talent...He needs a clean medical...Come in 340 or less...And bench 32+. Show me commitment to the next level. Nix gained 31 pounds in the offseason program which was reported as "good weight". That would be commitment based on his pics...He looked the part in offseason drills (left). I'll take the guy on the left! He got soft during the season (Right) & that weight wasn't good weight. With that injury hitting after that weight was added...There are concerns. Andrews did the surgery so I'm sure the Steelers will know the medical.
Last edited by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY; 01-22-2014 at 12:37 PM.
01-22-2014, 12:39 PM
I am not usually a huge fan of Irish defensive players, many seem to underwhelm in the pros but I dont think Nixs is that type of player. When looking at him as a 34 NT he is an absolutely exceptional fit in that he can play zero technique and eat up blockers but he is also very quick and explosive for being around 340 pounds and can shoot a gap to stop a runner for a loss.
Casey Hampton did not have his kind of quickness, casey was explosive off the snap like him though and thats what made him a special NT, Nix provides the same type of anchoring but also addsa a pass rushing dynamic that casey did not have. He has a mean bull rush and is relentless in pursuit. Something i notice about him as well is he often gets his hands up in passing lanes, an underrated quality in defensive lineman.
He plays low or a 6-3 NT which lets him win battles and not get out leveraged while being an anchor. One of his most impressive qualities is the ability to explode through gaps on running plays and hit the RB in the backfield.
He reminds me of wilfork in size and playing style (not 390 pound wilfork but wilfork out of miami) and hes a similar athlete to Dontari Poe though he likely wont be running an incredible 40. Hes not just a 2 down run stuffer, hes a rare breed of NT and adds something to the pass rush whether it is himself rumbling after the QB or freeing up other players.
01-22-2014, 12:52 PM
Good first post.
Originally Posted by K Train
01-22-2014, 12:58 PM
Thanks. I am not totally on board with a NT in the first round, but it could definitely be a worst player than Nix. I had hopes for one of Mcclendon, Woods, or Fangupu to step up at NT but that didnt happen. Woods was awesome at DE but was outleveraged bad when lined up over center.
Originally Posted by Shawn
Someone once compared Mcclendon at NT like when Kimo Von Oelhoffen was starting at NT the year before Casey got it. Thats a slam dunk comparison, hes an Ok body in there but he is what he is....never will really be much more than what we see now which is an average rotational NT and someone not really long enough to play DE full time.
Taking Nix would be much better than taking a guy like Raji or Phil Taylor in the first, like i said its more like wilfork and poe, difference makers rather than big plugs in the middle.
Last edited by K Train; 01-22-2014 at 01:02 PM.
01-22-2014, 01:03 PM
Many good points were made in this thread on both sides of this debate. I believe Nix would be a powerful anchor for our 3-4 and free up our LBrs in ways they haven't seen since Hampton. But, the points about how other teams will game plan and exploit our NT made much sense to me as well. I would be very happy with Nix as our pick. With that said, this debate has swayed me more towards going with a LBr who wont leave the field...a guy who will give the D flexibility. Tell me how valuable it would be to have a linebacker who can stuff the run and cover slot WRs. Mosley might be that guy. If Dennard isn't there, I think the Steelers roll with Mosley. If both are gone I must believe it's Nix.
Originally Posted by K Train
01-22-2014, 01:12 PM
Im personally looking for a WR or a pass rusher with the first pick. Evans, Benjamin, Lee, Moncreif, Mack, or possibly one of the TEs.
Originally Posted by Shawn
The zone blocking stretch play is absolutely made to neutralize big bodied NTs, thats where I like Nix because he can not only explode and anchor, he can penetrate.
Heyward is a bad man out there, probably one of the best Dlinemen that no one really knows about and we could definitely use another DE there too. Hageman or Tuitt would be badass additions to the dline. Tuitt is looked at as being more finesse but imo his only position is 5 technique, Hageman would be a terror opposite Heyward as well.
Mosely is absolutely a 3 down LB, Timmons is king out there still but Timmons and mosely would definitely rival Willis/Bowman in that regard. I think maybe they might consider ending up moving Jarvis inside the same way they did timmons. I love Jones but not sure he will ever be the sack artist we would hope, i think hes a great football player and adds somethign to the defense but going after a guy like mack would really add an explosive dynamic that they currently do not have.
Dennard is a great player but I think he may be a poor fit for lebeau, gilbert is the more versatile player, the better return man, and the better fit for the defense. Would rather look at CB in the second round personally
01-22-2014, 01:15 PM
Nix will give you more than Hampton in pass rush...I agree. Nix won't be the guy penciled in as rush DT in sub. That isn't Nix's strength. You want your True NT to come off in pass to get a breather if possible. A True NT, if doing his job, exerts himself in the trenches & you don't want him chasing around a QB in shotgun because if they get a 1st...You don't want him winded. That's just the reality of it. If you are a Ngata or a Poe with extraordinary stamina...They stay on the field....But Nix isn't that guy.
Originally Posted by K Train
One of the things you stated is actually one of the things he needs to work on. Coachable & with conditioning...Should be correctable. Again, getting him off the field in pass rush will help that too. When Nix wears down he plays upright. When he starts playing upright he tries to control with his upper body & he gets washed. If you are playing NT...You better be playing with your legs & pushing your body forward. You can watch any game tape on him & see that down the stretch. This should be something correctable with coaching & conditioning. When Nix is fresh...He will give you a true 0 tech with above average range.
01-22-2014, 01:20 PM
I agree his conditioning at a point was poor, Brian Kelly threatened his job i believe and he trimmed down quite a bit heading into his Junior year, weight and conditioning is always an issue with a 340 pound player. My favorite player on that defense is still Tuitt, its just most years i think NT in the first is a waste but this year I would be OK with Nix.
Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
I agree you put in other guys to rush the passer (woods, hood, ect even though i Loathe Evander Hood). My point was he isnt the guy that adds absolutely nothing to a pass rush and he can definitely collapse a pocket and get a good push up the middle, even if thats not ideal.
01-29-2014, 04:20 PM
2014 NFL Mock Draft: Post Senior Bowl edition sees a familiar face heading to Pittsburgh
By big_jay71 on Jan 27 2014
15. Pittsburgh Steelers - Louis Nix lll NT, Notre Dame
Team needs: OT/NT/CB/S/WR
While this pick could definitely be influenced by free agency the law of averages says it will most likely come down to drafting philosophy. Colbert & Co. typically spend early round picks on front seven defensive players and offensive linemen, of course a truly elite prospect could always trump tendency or need. Despite injuries and some very bad rough patches the offensive line started to come together by the end of the season and with the newly hired O-line miracle maker that is Mike Munchak I'm sure the Steelers will bypass taking a lineman early. Of course should the impossible happened and Jake Matthews is still available he should be a no-brainer pick.
The biggest issue on the front seven of the defense is the free agency of Ziggy Hood and Brett Keisel. It's conceivable that both could be resigned but at least one of them should. If Omar Khan can work his magic and keep Jason Worilds that would be great but even if he can't it'll be Jarvis Jones and Woodley starting at OLB. Woodley's contract carries too much dead money to release him. If Anthony Barr or maybe even Khalil Mack fell they could be picked but with Jones and Woodley on board they likely spend a mid-to-late-round pick on a DE/OLB tweener project. They could draft C.J. Mosley which would be an upgrade next to Lawrence Timmons but they do have the platoon of Larry Foote, Vince Williams, Sean Spence, and Terence Garvin so unless they feel like Mosley is in that elite category he won't be an option.
The Steelers will definitely have to face the issue at CB at some point in this draft. If he were available Justin Gilbert fits the mold of the type of CB that they seem to prefer, Darqueze Dennard does not however, but they generally wait until the middle rounds to draft a tall, lanky, raw but athletic CB from a non-powerhouse school. Eric Ebron would be very enticing to be an eventual successor to Heath Miller but he probably has 4 good years left before he needs to be replaced and with the rumors that his contract will be extended it's unlikely the Steelers would be looking for his replacement here. Manny Sanders is a free agent but as with CB's the Steelers prefer to wait until the middle rounds to draft WR's but could certainly kick the tires on Marqise Lee.
Based on everything above the likely candidate is Louis Nix. Steve McLendon is a decent NT but would be much better off play DE which would shore up that position should the Steelers not be able to resign both Hood and Keisel. Just like the Steelers wanted to get back to running the ball on offense they just as likely want to get back to stopping the run on defense.
Louis Nix is Casey Hampton incarnate. "Irish Chocolate" as his Notre Dame teammates call him, may only ever be a two-down player, although he continues to shed weight and improve his conditioning every season since his freshman year and has the potential to play all three downs, but he is a necessary tool to put opposing offenses in 3rd-and-long situations instead of 3rd-and-short. He is considered to be an elite player so getting him at 15 is a steal even if he does take a breather on 3rd down.