Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 81

Thread: Soooo, about that "tomlin has lost the team" stuff

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
    I like the analogy to things that happened during the Cowher era simply because Cowher is held up by many as the anti-Tomlin or the "standard" for Tomlin. And as many have pointed out, we've seen these types of lulls when Cowher was the head man in charge also.
    Yeah, and if anyone remembers the old Trib board, I was critical of Cowher sometimes, too...I called for him to be fired the season after the Super Bowl win, when he was just going through the motions...he quit after that season anyway.

  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
    You state your concerns in a fair and reasonable manner. To some extent, I agree. The thing that bothered me in the earlier part of the season was the rabid "Fire Tomlin" crowd. Many of them made irrational emotion based statements that they are now unwilling to defend; like "Fire Tomlin, I'm tired of him standing on the sideline with that blank stare like he doesn't know what's going on" or "Fire Tomlin, he's not even trying to get these guys coached up" blah, blah, blah.
    Now, I'm not saying this team will or will not make the playoffs (it sure would be GREAT if they did though). But, I will say that I have seen a team that has undergone some adversity while giving significant playing time to young players GROW as the season has progressed ... Doesn't seem like they are led by a guy who forgot how to coach, or wasn't coaching when we couldn't see what was going on or even one who needs to be fired.

    btw, I like your pick of Abbrederis in the third. Guy totally lit Roby up when they played tOSU.
    I hear ya. I think much of that was mere emotions rather than something more sinister.

    As for Abbrederis, the guy is way underrated. He is a superb route runner, with terrific hands. The way he gets after balls and plays physically reminds me of Hines Ward. He lit the best DB in the nation up for 200+ yards in one of the bigger games of this season. That tells me something.

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by bostonsteeler View Post
    Not to be a race baiter or anything, but that may have had something to do with the above for *some* people (certainly not the majority here, but they're around).
    See and that is what I am eluding to. I hate the fact that every time something critical is said about a black coach, it's about the color of their skin. The great majority of Steeler fans could care less if Tomlin was purple...if he wins...he will be liked and popular...when he loses...not so much. That's the way it works.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    But never with a uninjured franchise QB. Also does anybody remember the 2000 season? The Steelers got 3 apology letters from the NFL for blowing 3 calls in 3 different games. Using Cowher as some sort of scapegoat is bologna. Cowher had to continue to rebuild teams in the 90's because of the loss of FAs. He also had to go through a power struggle with Donahoe. 7 years into his tenure the best players on this team are STILL from Cowher's time. Tomlin hasn't made ONE position stronger than before he got here. But yea, Cowher struggled a couple of years so that means Tomlin is off the hook... I guess it is easier to compare totally different situations just to make your point of view seem correct.
    And that was one of my concerns. Cowher was able to win without a franchise QB. When he got his franchise QB he won a SB. Tomlin stepped into a very good situation. He came to a winning franchise, with a franchise QB, and leadership. He didn't change coaching staff...Cowher dismantled the coaching staff.

    All of this doesn't make Tomlin a bad coach or a good coach. It means, I think as much success as Tomlin has had, I want to see a team and staff that Tomlin puts together win...and win consistently. When the team is 5-6 with a franchise QB at the helm, a top 5 NFL WR, and a D that has been known for being stout for years...well I'm concerned. I don't want him fired. I think he is probably a very good coach. With that said, I'm not completely sold. I think the next 2-3 seasons will tell us much. I think it's the difference in Tomlin going down in NFL history as a good coach or an elite coach.

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    And that was one of my concerns. Cowher was able to win without a franchise QB. When he got his franchise QB he won a SB. Tomlin stepped into a very good situation. He came to a winning franchise, with a franchise QB, and leadership. He didn't change coaching staff...Cowher dismantled the coaching staff.

    All of this doesn't make Tomlin a bad coach or a good coach. It means, I think as much success as Tomlin has had, I want to see a team and staff that Tomlin puts together win...and win consistently. When the team is 5-6 with a franchise QB at the helm, a top 5 NFL WR, and a D that has been known for being stout for years...well I'm concerned. I don't want him fired. I think he is probably a very good coach. With that said, I'm not completely sold. I think the next 2-3 seasons will tell us much. I think it's the difference in Tomlin going down in NFL history as a good coach or an elite coach.
    First for Vader: Ben, Miller, Kiesel, Troy and Ike ... That's what's left of the core of "Cowher's players" on this team. Those guys are gone, being replaced and won't be back. That's the nature of football. Further, It's a little irrational and unrealistic to think that all of those pro-bowl players will be replaced with guys who are better than they were (i.e. "Tomlin hasn't made ONE position stronger than before he got here.") although I'd argue that Tomlin has improved the WR corp., center, Right guard, left guard and held par by bringing in Heyward. So, why don't we give the guy a chance to get some of his draft picks seasoned and up to par? As we see with Heyward, Worilds, Timmons, Brown, etc. Not all of his picks are complete and total crap. Btw, just to tick you off a little ... even Cowher got a couple of years to retool after the mid 90's team got old. And as I recall, in those years of 98, 99 there weren't any black and gold confetti parades in the 'Burgh.

    Shawn ... I'm actually with you on the 2-3 years thing. That should be enough time to transition in his guys while still remaining competitive. If say at the end of 3 years, we're not seeing an improved product (read "playoff caliber team")... well, I'd be fine with going in a new direction.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
    First for Vader: Ben, Miller, Kiesel, Troy and Ike ... That's what's left of the core of "Cowher's players" on this team. Those guys are gone, being replaced and won't be back. That's the nature of football. Further, It's a little irrational and unrealistic to think that all of those pro-bowl players will be replaced with guys who are better than they were (i.e. "Tomlin hasn't made ONE position stronger than before he got here.") although I'd argue that Tomlin has improved the WR corp., center, Right guard, left guard and held par by bringing in Heyward. So, why don't we give the guy a chance to get some of his draft picks seasoned and up to par? As we see with Heyward, Worilds, Timmons, Brown, etc. Not all of his picks are complete and total crap. Btw, just to tick you off a little ... even Cowher got a couple of years to retool after the mid 90's team got old. And as I recall, in those years of 98, 99 there weren't any black and gold confetti parades in the 'Burgh.

    Shawn ... I'm actually with you on the 2-3 years thing. That should be enough time to transition in his guys while still remaining competitive. If say at the end of 3 years, we're not seeing an improved product (read "playoff caliber team")... well, I'd be fine with going in a new direction.
    And I think that is fair. There is little doubt in my mind that Tomlin is a good coach. Is he a great coach? Maybe. I just think the jury is still out. I actually think Tomlin and co. have drafted well. While it may have taken a bit of time to groom some of these guys...many are starting to come into their own.

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    And that was one of my concerns. Cowher was able to win without a franchise QB. When he got his franchise QB he won a SB. Tomlin stepped into a very good situation. He came to a winning franchise, with a franchise QB, and leadership. He didn't change coaching staff...Cowher dismantled the coaching staff.

    All of this doesn't make Tomlin a bad coach or a good coach. It means, I think as much success as Tomlin has had, I want to see a team and staff that Tomlin puts together win...and win consistently. When the team is 5-6 with a franchise QB at the helm, a top 5 NFL WR, and a D that has been known for being stout for years...well I'm concerned. I don't want him fired. I think he is probably a very good coach. With that said, I'm not completely sold. I think the next 2-3 seasons will tell us much. I think it's the difference in Tomlin going down in NFL history as a good coach or an elite coach.
    Cowher had bad judgement vis-a-vis QBs.. the lack of QB talent was a problem of his own creation.

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    See and that is what I am eluding to. I hate the fact that every time something critical is said about a black coach, it's about the color of their skin. The great majority of Steeler fans could care less if Tomlin was purple...if he wins...he will be liked and popular...when he loses...not so much. That's the way it works.
    I'm speaking of the people who want to "expose" Tomlin. I've been calling Tomlin a bonehead too, but then I yelled for Cowher's head for many years, and called him moron and whatnot. I was relieved to see him go after his handling of 2006. I'm not critical of criticizing Tomlin. Coaches will and must be held responsible for the team's performance.

    But there are people who insist he's a Rooney rule hire and would like to "expose" him as such. You know they are around.

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
    First for Vader: Ben, Miller, Kiesel, Troy and Ike ... That's what's left of the core of "Cowher's players" on this team. Those guys are gone, being replaced and won't be back. That's the nature of football. Further, It's a little irrational and unrealistic to think that all of those pro-bowl players will be replaced with guys who are better than they were (i.e. "Tomlin hasn't made ONE position stronger than before he got here.") although I'd argue that Tomlin has improved the WR corp., center, Right guard, left guard and held par by bringing in Heyward. So, why don't we give the guy a chance to get some of his draft picks seasoned and up to par? As we see with Heyward, Worilds, Timmons, Brown, etc. Not all of his picks are complete and total crap. Btw, just to tick you off a little ... even Cowher got a couple of years to retool after the mid 90's team got old. And as I recall, in those years of 98, 99 there weren't any black and gold confetti parades in the 'Burgh.

    Shawn ... I'm actually with you on the 2-3 years thing. That should be enough time to transition in his guys while still remaining competitive. If say at the end of 3 years, we're not seeing an improved product (read "playoff caliber team")... well, I'd be fine with going in a new direction.
    Center position? Pouncey has been hurt every year and was easily replaced by a guy who was in church a week before. The WRs he inherited were Ward, Holmes, Washington and Wilson. Now they have Brown, Sanders and Cotchery. Sorry it isn't even close. Right guard? Simmons was a very good RG. DeCastro hasn't even played a full year yet. LG? you're out of your mind. Faneca is 100X the LG that Foster is. Do you watch this team at all? Also Heyward plays LDE which was manned by Aaron Smith. Sorry that isn't even close to par.

    Oh and tick you off a little maybe you should get your memory checked. Cowher was given time because he built the original team AND because he had to deal with losing FAs because Heinz field hadn't been built yet. Do you remember guys like Chad Brown, Searcy, and Woodson? Also he had to deal with a power struggle with Donahoe. Also the 2000 Steelers had 3 NFL apologies for screwing up calls in 3 different games. Please tell me what has Tomlin overcome? He's had a franchise QB EVERY year he has been here and hasn't had to go through half of what Cowher had to.

    That's why they shouldn't be compared. Totally different circumstances.
    Last edited by Vader; 11-27-2013 at 11:22 PM.

  10. #80
    Except they aren't different....both are (were) Steelers head coaches...comparing them is the only valid comparison...

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •