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Thread: Jarvis Jones

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    He doesn't hate rookies and I'd be willing to bet to a man that the defensive players have a greater respect for Dick Lebeau as a coordinator and teacher of the game than we will ever know. What Dick Lebeau does do and it seems to have worked for him for quite some time is insist on players knowing their assignments before they will get significant playing time. Which means that rookies by and large are going to sit and learn the assignments (much to the chagrin of some). Even Ike as recently as 3 or 4 years ago was benched because he was playing poorly and not handling his assignments in the defense. It has absolutely nothing to do with age, that's a perception promoted by those that don't care for Lebeau's style of defense and would like to see him retire.

    Lebeau's record speaks for itself over the years. A couple of down years doesn't mean that Lebeau has forgotten how to coach football or that football has passed him by, there are other factors in play that seem to be conveniently overlooked.

    Pappy
    Just because his D has worked in the past doesn't mean it translates to now. Have you noticed all the passing records being blown out of the water this season? That tells me the game has changed but Lebooo hasn't. Having CBs playing 10 yards of a WR on 3rd and 5 is simply moronic. He even had the CBs playing way off the WR near the goal line. That is even more retarded, and the accouncers even made mention of it.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    Lebeau hasn't refused to play rookies. Sheesshhhh pay more attention. Several rookies and young players saw the field this season. However, it is preferable to have experienced players on the field. Most people in life prefer to work with experienced people if possible. There is generally a learning curve for inexperience professionals.

    People generally paint themselves into a corner to eat crow when they state or believe, "this worked for years...but hasn't worked lately and it won't work moving forward." Remember losing great players and transitional phase.

    The BIGGEST reason why records of any sort are falling is due to the emphasis the league has place on offensive football/scoring over the years. Player mistakes in execution/responsibilities were generally responsible for the defensive lapses that took place for the Steelers.

    What's missing in your thought process is that it isn't about a rookie making a name for himself but the overall success of the defense. The fact remains that this defense has been CONSISTENTLY been one of the best since Lebeau has been DC. The defense is going through a transitional phase where they lost several good/great players. Just last season the defense was 6th in ppg. How soon you forgot.

    2004 defense 1st in ppg (playoffs)
    2005 defense 4th in ppg (SB winner)
    2006 defense 11th in ppg
    2007 defense 2nd in ppg (playoffs)
    2008 defesne 1st in ppg (Historic Defensive, SB winner)
    2009 defense 12th in ppg
    2010 defense 1st in ppg (SB loser)
    2011 defense 1st in ppg (playoffs)
    2012 defense 6th in ppg
    2013 defense 14th in ppg

    Damn and spoiled fan base is all I can say about some of the defensive efforts that we've witnessed under Leabeau.

    It will be difficult to find a team to match the consistency of a Leabeau coached defense since he returned as Steelers DC. The Steelers haven't made the playoffs without a top 5 ppg defense since 2004.

    One of the biggest issues on this team has been the offenses inability to score points with the best offenses in the league on a consistent basis. For that I lay at the feet of the QB for refusing to adjust his style of play. Ben showed signs of changing his style during this season. We will see what happens next season.

    The past is the past. The game is rapidly changing but LeBeau wants to do what he did in 2008 with completely different players and the game being called completely differently. Add in the decreasing number of sacks and INTs over the past 3-4 years and you can se this defense can't make the impact it did in 2008.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  3. #53
    But that isn't what is happening...LeBeau made adjustments to his scheme...the adjustments worked....

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL View Post
    Lebeau hasn't refused to play rookies. Sheesshhhh pay more attention. Several rookies and young players saw the field this season. However, it is preferable to have experienced players on the field. Most people in life prefer to work with experienced people if possible. There is generally a learning curve for inexperience professionals.

    People generally paint themselves into a corner to eat crow when they state or believe, "this worked for years...but hasn't worked lately and it won't work moving forward." Remember losing great players and transitional phase.

    The BIGGEST reason why records of any sort are falling is due to the emphasis the league has place on offensive football/scoring over the years. Player mistakes in execution/responsibilities were generally responsible for the defensive lapses that took place for the Steelers.

    What's missing in your thought process is that it isn't about a rookie making a name for himself but the overall success of the defense. The fact remains that this defense has been CONSISTENTLY been one of the best since Lebeau has been DC. The defense is going through a transitional phase where they lost several good/great players. Just last season the defense was 6th in ppg. How soon you forgot.

    2004 defense 1st in ppg (playoffs)
    2005 defense 4th in ppg (SB winner)
    2006 defense 11th in ppg
    2007 defense 2nd in ppg (playoffs)
    2008 defesne 1st in ppg (Historic Defensive, SB winner)
    2009 defense 12th in ppg
    2010 defense 1st in ppg (SB loser)
    2011 defense 1st in ppg (playoffs)
    2012 defense 6th in ppg
    2013 defense 14th in ppg

    Damn and spoiled fan base is all I can say about some of the defensive efforts that we've witnessed under Leabeau.

    It will be difficult to find a team to match the consistency of a Leabeau coached defense since he returned as Steelers DC. The Steelers haven't made the playoffs without a top 5 ppg defense since 2004.

    One of the biggest issues on this team has been the offenses inability to score points with the best offenses in the league on a consistent basis. For that I lay at the feet of the QB for refusing to adjust his style of play. Ben showed signs of changing his style during this season. We will see what happens next season.
    So Ben needed to change but Lebeau doesn't need to because of his success in the past? Gotcha...

    As far as DL goes.... no one is disputing his resume over the years but these last few have been below average. With the new CBA we no longer have the luxury of 2 to 3 years before a player gets up to speed. Sure we played more rookies because we didnt have a choice but we will continue to struggle if they need a few years to grasp this D.

    ...and it IS about rookies making a name for themselves. Yay team and all of that but if these rookies dont shine then WE won't shine as a team. If they don't make a name they aren't seeing the field... if they aren't seeing the field they will jump ship after the first contract.

    Brownmade a name for himself, Wallace made a name for himself, Bell has made a name for himself, Troy, JH, Woodley, etc.... these rookies BETTER make names for themselves or WE will continue to be a .500 team watching younger team's run past us because we are being held hostage by old stats.

    I like Lebeau... a lot. However, if this trend continues he needs to retire. Those ppg stats are cool but I watch every game. If we struggle to get pressure, struggle to keep youth on the field, struggle to get stops on 3rd and 9 on critical possessions and struggle against the zone read and keep that freaking 10 yard cushion on 3rd and 5 its a wrap.

  5. #55
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    So answer this; what team do you consider the best in the 'new generation' of defense? Seattle?, Carolina?, San Fran? Cleveland? (had a high ranking defense this season with Horton installing LeBeaus defense).

    What do these teams have that the Steelers don't? They are all highly ranked in Rec Yds Against/att.

    How about % of passes caught against? If the Steelers are really 'tackling the catch' this number should rank them at the bottom, correct?

    Well it might surprise a few:

    The Steelers were 10th in the NFL in Rec Yds Against/attempt. (11.1 yds, Seattle #1 9.9 yds.... think about that! The number one defense against the pass was allowing almost 10 yds per attempt!!)

    and

    % of passes caught against?.... the Steelers were 5th best in the league at 58%. (those great Seahawks???... allowed 60% of passes caught).

    All this means to me is there were a few bad plays or games this season. So what? ...every team has them. The Steelers defensive scheme is fine, it's the effect of league rules that Steeler fans don't like, more passing, more yards....

  6. #56
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    The difference between the Seattle D and ours is physicality. They are called the Legend of Boom. Only thing we are called is old.

    All you have to do is watch the Seahawks and you can recognize they play physical football. What is interesting is that win, lose or draw, the team that plays them loses the next week.

    I noticed how lethargic the Colts looked on Monday night in their loss to the Chargers. San Diego was running right through the defense and the Colts never got in sync. I went back and looked at every team that Seattle faced and looked at how they played the following week. All six teams lost the following week.

    Carolina lost to Buffalo, San Francisco lost to Indianapolis, Jacksonville lost to Indianapolis, Houston lost to San Francisco and Indianapolis lost to San Diego. What was striking about the losses was the points scored and points given up. The six teams only generated a combined total of 45 points the week after their Seattle encounter (7.5 points per team) and they gave up 23.5 points per team.
    Tennessee lost to Seattle last week and now host the 49ers. It looks like it could be seven in a row.


    The difference between us and Carolina.... ppg. Carolina gave up 15 ppg. We gave up 23. By the way... Seattle gave up 14.4.

    Turnovers... Seattle 39, San Fran 30, Carolina 31.. Steelers 20.

    Carolina and San Fran are also more physical...

    Oh... and we are older than all those other teams on D.


    Last edited by feltdizz; 01-05-2014 at 11:08 AM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    So Ben needed to change but Lebeau doesn't need to because of his success in the past? Gotcha...

    As far as DL goes.... no one is disputing his resume over the years but these last few have been below average. With the new CBA we no longer have the luxury of 2 to 3 years before a player gets up to speed. Sure we played more rookies because we didnt have a choice but we will continue to struggle if they need a few years to grasp this D.

    ...and it IS about rookies making a name for themselves. Yay team and all of that but if these rookies dont shine then WE won't shine as a team. If they don't make a name they aren't seeing the field... if they aren't seeing the field they will jump ship after the first contract.

    Brownmade a name for himself, Wallace made a name for himself, Bell has made a name for himself, Troy, JH, Woodley, etc.... these rookies BETTER make names for themselves or WE will continue to be a .500 team watching younger team's run past us because we are being held hostage by old stats.

    I like Lebeau... a lot. However, if this trend continues he needs to retire. Those ppg stats are cool but I watch every game. If we struggle to get pressure, struggle to keep youth on the field, struggle to get stops on 3rd and 9 on critical possessions and struggle against the zone read and keep that freaking 10 yard cushion on 3rd and 5 its a wrap.
    The Lebeau coached defense performed at a high level consistently. Ben struggled with consistency. As a result, the offense never performed at the level of top offenses in the league from a consistency stand point. Based on the offensive and defensive rankings over the years who needed to adjust/improve more? Ben or Lebeau? The defense only had one way to go. Can't bethe number one defense or a top 5 defense every year. Having a top 5 ppg defense 70% of the time is pretty good though.

    Uncharacteristic big plays were the biggest issue for the defense this season. Players give up big plays mostly due to poor execution.

    The defense always played rookies. It's rare that rookies come into the league and have a huge impact. It's not only about grasping the defense. Rookie defensive players must also learn how to cope with the speed of the game. The must also deal with offenses that throw multiple personnel packages and formations. Making the transition from college to the pros isn't as easy as some of you want to believe. Most players that come out of college are NOT ready to play at a high level right away in the NFL. There will always be an adjustment period for players. That adjustment period will be different for each player. Based on my observations that's generally things how play our around the league. It took 2 or 3 seasons for the players you mentioned to make a name for themselves.

    The ppg stat is the most important stat for a defense. Regardless of the number of sacks, turnovers, ect. the Steelers didn't make the playoffs without a top 5 ppg defense since 2004.

    One season doesn't constitute a trend my friend.

    Lebeau is going to retire eventually so you will have your wish. Steelers fans are spoiled.


    Last edited by BURGH86STEEL; 01-05-2014 at 11:13 AM.

  8. #58
    The key to playing D in today's game is having physical DBs who can intimidate, knock WRs off of routes, come up and play the run. That coupled with a fierce pass rush. When you have those things, it knocks an O out of rythym...and guys like Manning don't have an answer. Yes, they will exploit the deep ball from time to time, but it beats having a team control the clock and the rhythm of the game.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    The key to playing D in today's game is having physical DBs who can intimidate, knock WRs off of routes, come up and play the run. That coupled with a fierce pass rush. When you have those things, it knocks an O out of rythym...and guys like Manning don't have an answer. Yes, they will exploit the deep ball from time to time, but it beats having a team control the clock and the rhythm of the game.
    Basically what you are saying is it's about the players ability to execute. Putting a defense like that together is difficult. Keeping a defense like that together with the free agency is even more difficult.

    Combine FA and offensive slanted rules and the days of consistently dominating defenses year in year out are probably over.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    The past is the past. The game is rapidly changing but LeBeau wants to do what he did in 2008 with completely different players and the game being called completely differently. Add in the decreasing number of sacks and INTs over the past 3-4 years and you can se this defense can't make the impact it did in 2008.
    The game has changed over the past five years, rapidly and significantly. Would be interesting to compare the 2008 rules to the 2013 rules, compare the fines and sanctions given by the Goodell Administratio 2008 vs 2013, and the stats on passing, rushing, and penalties 2008 vs 2013. They might give measurement to the extent of change.

    They say they want to protect the players, but what are they doing to protect the OL and DL in the trenches where headshots are absorbed frequently?



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