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Thread: Anyone who thinks Tomlin or Colbert are going anywhere

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by steelerkeylargo View Post
    is delusional to say the least. I would however like to see LeBeau retire and the Steeler's go to a 4-3. I think Haley is 50/50 to return I think they need to win 7 games for him to save his job. This is what I would like to see the roster look like next year for a quick turn around. I don't believe we need to blow it up

    Gone- Clark, Cotchery,Keisel,Hood,Foote

    RDE-Jarvis Jones, Jason Worilds
    DT-Cam Heyward, Al Woods
    DT-Steve McClendon, Nick Williams
    LDE-Lamar Woodley, Chaz Sutton (7th rd South Carolina)
    ROLB-Morgan Breslin (2nd round USC), Terrence Garvin
    MLB-Vince Williams,Sean Spence
    LOLB-Lawrence Timmons, ????
    CB-Ike Taylor, Aaron Colvin (3rd round Oklahoma)
    CB-Cortez Allen, William Gay
    FS-Shamarko Thomas, Robert Golden
    SS-Troy Polamalu, Kenny Ladler (4th rd Vandy)

    QB-Ben, Grad, Jones
    RB-Leveon Bell,James Wilder Jr. (4th rd FSU), Dwyer
    FB-Will Johnson
    WR-Antonio, Manny, Wheaton, Moye, Justin Brown
    TE-Heath Miller,Colt Lyerla (6th rd Oregon)
    LT-Cam Erving (1st rd FSU),Marcus Gilbert
    LG-Maurkice Pouncey,Ramon Foster
    C-Fernando Velasco, Gabe Ikard (5th round Oklahoma)
    RG-David DeCastro, Nik Embernate
    RT-Kelvin Beachum,Mike Adams
    Interesting....

    If this were the case, I would make just a few minor changes:

    I would put Heyward at strong side DE...he did play inside for the Bucks and I might put him inside on passing downs, though...I would then put Woodley at weak side DE....

    I would pair Fangupo at DT with McClendon...not ideal, but, given the cap situation, he would need to play on two downs...

    I would put Jarvis at strong side LB...and put him at DE on passing downs...

    I would flip-flop Timmons and Spence...Timmons at MLB and Spence, presumably, at WLB...

    I would not make a tremendous effort to keep Sanders on O...I would try to keep Velasco...putting Pouncey at LG is a brave decision....

  2. #52
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Butler is going to be the DC so you might as well start prepping for it.

  3. #53
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    no thanks on butler.

    whats he shown as a position coach?

    2 years to have timmons finally start. 3 for worldis.

    the guy has all high draft picks in his unit and are underperforming
    Butler did ok with Timmons considering he was drafted to be an OLB which was a big mistake and he was able to turn him into a 3-4 ILB which is a very difficult position. Tomlin overdrafted him because he was slobbering all over Timmons knob during the draft process because he was a "run and hit LB" which is another stupid Tomlinism. Worilds was another "run and hit" LB that was overdrafted.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    Butler did ok with Timmons considering he was drafted to be an OLB which was a big mistake and he was able to turn him into a 3-4 ILB which is a very difficult position. Tomlin overdrafted him because he was slobbering all over Timmons knob during the draft process because he was a "run and hit LB" which is another stupid Tomlinism. Worilds was another "run and hit" LB that was overdrafted.
    Did Tomlin run over your dog or something? Seriously, how about giving Timmons some credit for his transition from being drafted as an OLB and making the transition to ILB. Now, name 1 LBer that you can point to that Butler developed. Woodley? He's regressed from a rookie with outstanding potential to an average OLB. Foote and Farrior? One was developed on another team and the other, according to some, was J.A.G. for most of his career.
    So please, exactly what has Butler done that's so spectacular. Heck, he was part of the Cowher regime that was about to let Harrison rot on the vine.

  5. #55
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
    Did Tomlin run over your dog or something? Seriously, how about giving Timmons some credit for his transition from being drafted as an OLB and making the transition to ILB. Now, name 1 LBer that you can point to that Butler developed. Woodley? He's regressed from a rookie with outstanding potential to an average OLB. Foote and Farrior? One was developed on another team and the other, according to some, was J.A.G. for most of his career.
    So please, exactly what has Butler done that's so spectacular. Heck, he was part of the Cowher regime that was about to let Harrison rot on the vine.
    Read my post... I did give Timmons some props and I gave Butler props. Timmons being overdrafted isn't his fault.

    Joey Porter, James Farrior, Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, and James Harrison. Harrison improved from an undrafted practice squad linebacker into the NFL Defensive Player of the Year. Yes, Harrison should have played sooner in place of Haggans.

    But if that happened, Harrison's body would have been worn down by the start of Tomlin era and he wouldn't have one his SB if that was the case.

    Woodley has had weight issues but I don't think he's necessarily regressed.

    Obviously, Butler doesn't have a damn clue what he's doing.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    Read my post... I did give Timmons some props and I gave Butler props. Timmons being overdrafted isn't his fault.

    Joey Porter, James Farrior, Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, and James Harrison. Harrison improved from an undrafted practice squad linebacker into the NFL Defensive Player of the Year. Yes, Harrison should have played sooner in place of Haggans.

    But if that happened, Harrison's body would have been worn down by the start of Tomlin era and he wouldn't have one his SB if that was the case.

    Woodley has had weight issues but I don't think he's necessarily regressed.
    Porter was drafted in '99; became a starter in 2000. Butler was hired in 2003. Porter was an established starter with multi-sack years before Butler was even hired. Farrior was developed by the Jets (true, they didn't value/use him properly. But, I'd say that the way he was used here falls more on Cowher/LeBeau than Butler). Harrison wasn't valued properly by Cowher or Butler (and the Ravens, etc.), his story is one of not giving up, no matter what, not one of "look what Butler did". BTW, on whose watch did Harrison get his chance to shine? Woodley has had weight and effort issues, along with injuries that may have been preventable if he had conditioned properly. The failure to call him out until an "unidentified" teammate did it falls squarely on his position coach; Butler.
    Now, I'm not saying that he doesn't have a clue as to what he's doing. Not at all. I know I couldn't begin to do his job (as you couldn't begin to do Tomlin's). That said, I am as unsold on him as our next DC as you are on Tomlin as our current/future HC.

  7. #57
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
    Porter was drafted in '99; became a starter in 2000. Butler was hired in 2003. Porter was an established starter with multi-sack years before Butler was even hired. Farrior was developed by the Jets (true, they didn't value/use him properly. But, I'd say that the way he was used here falls more on Cowher/LeBeau than Butler). Harrison wasn't valued properly by Cowher or Butler (and the Ravens, etc.), his story is one of not giving up, no matter what, not one of "look what Butler did". BTW, on whose watch did Harrison get his chance to shine? Woodley has had weight and effort issues, along with injuries that may have been preventable if he had conditioned properly. The failure to call him out until an "unidentified" teammate did it falls squarely on his position coach; Butler.
    Now, I'm not saying that he doesn't have a clue as to what he's doing. Not at all. I know I couldn't begin to do his job (as you couldn't begin to do Tomlin's). That said, I am as unsold on him as our next DC as you are on Tomlin as our current/future HC.
    There is interviews where Butler has clearly indicated Woodley's weight issues.

    Your Farrior comment is purely speculation as well as Harrisons. I think it's funny that Cowher/Butler/Lebeau aren't given any credit for Harrison. Yes, Harrison put in the work but obviously coaches had an impact on him from a technique perspective. He didn't teach himself everything like you make it seem.

    I could easily do Tomlin's job. According to some here, he's not responsible for player development, draft picks, play calling, player preparedness, roster moves, hires/fires, clock management, challenges, etc. In that case, who the hell couldn't do his job? The hardest part would be to think of stupid (or clever depending on your view) analogies for weekly press conferences.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    There is interviews where Butler has clearly indicated Woodley's weight issues.

    Your Farrior comment is purely speculation as well as Harrisons. I think it's funny that Cowher/Butler/Lebeau aren't given any credit for Harrison. Yes, Harrison put in the work but obviously coaches had an impact on him from a technique perspective. He didn't teach himself everything like you make it seem.

    I could easily do Tomlin's job. According to some here, he's not responsible for player development, draft picks, play calling, player preparedness, roster moves, hires/fires, clock management, challenges, etc. In that case, who the hell couldn't do his job? The hardest part would be to think of stupid (or clever depending on your view) analogies for weekly press conferences.
    You do realize that Harrison spent time with the Ravens also. Your belief that all credit belongs to Cowher/Butler/Lebeau is also pure speculation. Whose to say that the things that turned him into "JAMES HARRISON" didn't start there? Maybe the light bulb started to come on as a result of their coaching ... you're right, it's all speculation. What isn't speculation is that he was rotting under Cowher/Butler, and got his chance under Tomlin.
    BTW, it's not speculation that Farrior was developed by the Jets. He led the league in tackles the season before he became a Steeler. The Jets' mistake was in undervaluing him and not extending him for a C2 before he was able to hit the free agent market.
    Further, Butler's "Woodley was overweight" comments didn't come until year 2 of the guy being a fat walrus and under-performing. Also came after he was called out by an unidentified teammate. Seems to me, if he was such a great position coach, he would have addressed the issue during OTAs, etc. You know, BEFORE the issue impacted the TEAM'S season and BEFORE it started to become a pattern.
    Just a little speculation here, but I'd wager that Woodley's approach changed this year more because he was called out by a teammate than because of what Butler said following the teammates comments.
    Again, Butler has done very little IMHO to say that his ascent to DC should be written on stone tablets and carried down the mountainside. And again, that's just my opinion. The same as your opinions on Tomlin are yours to own.
    I'm done with this because I don't want to be one of those fans who rants and raves about the same crap all the time. Turning a completely unrelated thread into one about my "favorite topic".

  9. #59
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
    You do realize that Harrison spent time with the Ravens also. Your belief that all credit belongs to Cowher/Butler/Lebeau is also pure speculation. Whose to say that the things that turned him into "JAMES HARRISON" didn't start there? Maybe the light bulb started to come on as a result of their coaching ... you're right, it's all speculation. What isn't speculation is that he was rotting under Cowher/Butler, and got his chance under Tomlin.
    BTW, it's not speculation that Farrior was developed by the Jets. He led the league in tackles the season before he became a Steeler. The Jets' mistake was in undervaluing him and not extending him for a C2 before he was able to hit the free agent market.
    Further, Butler's "Woodley was overweight" comments didn't come until year 2 of the guy being a fat walrus and under-performing. Also came after he was called out by an unidentified teammate. Seems to me, if he was such a great position coach, he would have addressed the issue during OTAs, etc. You know, BEFORE the issue impacted the TEAM'S season and BEFORE it started to become a pattern.
    Just a little speculation here, but I'd wager that Woodley's approach changed this year more because he was called out by a teammate than because of what Butler said following the teammates comments.
    Again, Butler has done very little IMHO to say that his ascent to DC should be written on stone tablets and carried down the mountainside. And again, that's just my opinion. The same as your opinions on Tomlin are yours to own.
    I'm done with this because I don't want to be one of those fans who rants and raves about the same crap all the time. Turning a completely unrelated thread into one about my "favorite topic".
    Harrison wasn't even on the Ravens long enough to be 'developed' by them. That's just made up.... take a look at the timelines.

    Farrior may have had 106 tackles for the Jets in his last season there but he was a 2x All Pro and 2x Pro Bowler and a staple of a very successful defense. He was also damn close to a NFL Defensive Player of the Year. He's the definition of what you want in an ILB. I agree though... he always had talent but I think we further developed that talent and the scheme always helps.

    Speaking of Farrior, when Butler becomes our DC... I want if Farrior would be interested in a LB coaching job.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBuckeye View Post
    the other was a J.A.G. for most of his career.
    We used to make a heck of a lot more tackles and stop the run back when that Jag was playing Fans wanted rid of Hampton and Harrison too last year and look at how that's turned out.

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