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Thread: Anyone who thinks Tomlin or Colbert are going anywhere

  1. #131
    Todd Grantham and One-Gap Nose Tackle in the 3-4
    Pelini's 4-3 nose approach is similar to Grantham's 3-4 nose approach. In Pelini's scheme, the NT isn't a typical two-gap player; he's a DT lined up as a 1-tech instead of a 2-tech or a 3-tech. As a result, the NT doesn't have to be a two-gap player. Instead, he gets to challenge a single gap, which allows him to get more consistent penetration and generally cause havoc. That's the theory behind Grantham's take on the 3-4:


    Note that the NT in this formation doesn't actually line up as a 0-tech; he's instead slightly offset at the strongside 1-tech. (He doesn't necessarily have to be there, but it's easier for illustrative purposes.) Because he's moved directly off center, he can easier challenge a single gap instead of the typical two-gap approach, meaning he'd go to either the left or right of center instead of right at him. That in turn forces the offense to respond differently than they would against a two-gap NT, and it's similar to how an offensive line copes with a DT in a 4-3. In addition, shifting the NT to a 1-tech in essenceforces the side that needs to double. Because the NT in the example above is shifted slightly, the left guard and center have to combine on the block (the right guard will never make it over there), and good things happen.
    What kind of good things happen? Instead of being reliant on your NT soaking up two interior linemen, he directly threatens a gap, which in turn forces a hard response from the offensive line. The defensive end keeps the other guy on the line occupied, and the MLB on that side doesn't have to deal with any blockers. That means the MLB coming in gets to clean up the mess, and if he doesn't, then the OLB on that side gets to.
    There's more than just that, though. Shifting the NT to single-gap allows you to do things like stunts, full-side overload blitzes (for example, in the above diagram the TE cannot release into his route if it's a pass play, otherwise it's four blitzers vs. three linemen and the QB gets peeled off the turf; If it's a run, all blockers are accounted for and the playside safety can easily snuff it out)
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  2. #132
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Todd Grantham's 3-4 might have just as much in common with Romeo Crennel's 3-4 that he learned in Cleveland...which would make sense, as both Saban and Crennel learned the 3-4 from Belichick...
    Ding! Ding! Ding! Absolutely correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Both of which are different from Dick LeBeau's 3-4...
    Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Wrong!

    Only thing different is that Saban and Belicheck introduced "Pattern-match" (man coverage that uses zone principles to identify the match-up). LeBeau's whole concept for the 3-4 zone blitz was he wanted "safe pressure" on the QB and as a result used and extensive zone coverage. Which really isnt a blitz at all. 90% of the time it was simply 4 men rushing.

    But guess what not only is LeBeau now using "Patern-match" coverage, but all 3-4 D-coordinators are.

    And if you still disagree then please tell us how exactly is LerBeaus' 3-4 different from Saban's.
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  3. #133
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerkeylargo View Post
    Todd Grantham and One-Gap Nose Tackle in the 3-4
    Pelini's 4-3 nose approach is similar to Grantham's 3-4 nose approach. In Pelini's scheme, the NT isn't a typical two-gap player; he's a DT lined up as a 1-tech instead of a 2-tech or a 3-tech. As a result, the NT doesn't have to be a two-gap player. Instead, he gets to challenge a single gap, which allows him to get more consistent penetration and generally cause havoc. That's the theory behind Grantham's take on the 3-4:


    Note that the NT in this formation doesn't actually line up as a 0-tech; he's instead slightly offset at the strongside 1-tech. (He doesn't necessarily have to be there, but it's easier for illustrative purposes.) Because he's moved directly off center, he can easier challenge a single gap instead of the typical two-gap approach, meaning he'd go to either the left or right of center instead of right at him. That in turn forces the offense to respond differently than they would against a two-gap NT, and it's similar to how an offensive line copes with a DT in a 4-3. In addition, shifting the NT to a 1-tech in essenceforces the side that needs to double. Because the NT in the example above is shifted slightly, the left guard and center have to combine on the block (the right guard will never make it over there), and good things happen.
    What kind of good things happen? Instead of being reliant on your NT soaking up two interior linemen, he directly threatens a gap, which in turn forces a hard response from the offensive line. The defensive end keeps the other guy on the line occupied, and the MLB on that side doesn't have to deal with any blockers. That means the MLB coming in gets to clean up the mess, and if he doesn't, then the OLB on that side gets to.
    There's more than just that, though. Shifting the NT to single-gap allows you to do things like stunts, full-side overload blitzes (for example, in the above diagram the TE cannot release into his route if it's a pass play, otherwise it's four blitzers vs. three linemen and the QB gets peeled off the turf; If it's a run, all blockers are accounted for and the playside safety can easily snuff it out)

    Note, they all do this. Even the Steelers. Their base is a 3-4 2 gap zone blitz. And that means it is their bread and butter. Who they are. But they all (those who run a 3-4), use some variations of a 1 gap as well as a 4-3. Haven't you not watched a Steeler game and seen them go to a 4-3?

    Let me help you. The Steelers are running more 1 gap now because they no longer have a Casey Hampton 2 gap plugger. Can't do it with McClendon. But does that mean LeBeau is a 1 gap 3-4 man?

    Thank you.
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  4. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dub View Post
    Note, they all do this. Even the Steelers. Their base is a 3-4 2 gap zone blitz. And that means it is their bread and butter. Who they are. But they all (those who run a 3-4), use some variations of a 1 gap as well as a 4-3. Haven't you not watched a Steeler game and seen them go to a 4-3?

    Let me help you. The Steelers are running more 1 gap now because they no longer have a Casey Hampton 2 gap plugger. Can't do it with McClendon. But does that mean LeBeau is a 1 gap 3-4 man?

    Thank you.
    I said Grantham runs a hybrid/1 gap 3-4. You told me he doesn't. Here is an example. There is your proof. Go bark up someone else's tree. I don't need your help with anything.
    2015 Draft

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    7) Spencer Roth-P-Baylor













  5. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dub View Post
    Ding! Ding! Ding! Absolutely correct.



    Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Wrong!

    Only thing different is that Saban and Belicheck introduced "Pattern-match" (man coverage that uses zone principles to identify the match-up). LeBeau's whole concept for the 3-4 zone blitz was he wanted "safe pressure" on the QB and as a result used and extensive zone coverage. Which really isnt a blitz at all. 90% of the time it was simply 4 men rushing.

    But guess what not only is LeBeau now using "Patern-match" coverage, but all 3-4 D-coordinators are.

    And if you still disagree then please tell us how exactly is LerBeaus' 3-4 different from Saban's.
    It's a copycat league...for any DC to incorporate certain principles into a defense is expected...but, all of that has zero to do with the basic defensive principles, the terminology, the sheer amount of defensive play calls and/or coverages, etc....

    Until we both have in hand defensive playbooks, it's just speculation...

  6. #136
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    SKL, let me put this to an end because it is kind of embarrassing. I know, I have been in your shoes. You can't stand to be wrong and your pride and your ego is so great you refuse to admit you are wrong. What you deliberately did with your article above is not include the link. It is from 2010. Same as the link I post down below which explains why Grantham used a 1 gap then. So I will add it for you.

    http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2010/10/...ps-and-numbers

    Here is that article from 2010 talking about why Grantham's 3-4 wasnt working at the time and why he had no choice but to run a 1 gap.

    Why the 3-4 defense isn't working for UGA right now
    Currently the starter, DeAngelo Tyson, is a defensive end trying to play nose tackle.
    This cannot work.
    Against South Carolina, not only did he not occupy two blockers, he was often pushed by the center. That can't happen in a 3-4. This is the equivalent of trying to have your grandmother pitch to the middle of the 1927 Yankees lineup.
    Disaster waiting to happen.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/471763-uga-and-the-3-4-defense-why-todd-granthams-scheme-hasnt-worked-yet


    What you have to run on defense sometimes has to do with personnel. Grantham may occasionally have to run a 1 gap 3-4 but that isnt who he is. Same with LeBeau, Saban, Belicheck, Parcells, etc. etc.

    Why dont we just let this one go now? It's done. I do not think any differently of you. I was there once. And I have learned that EGO really doesnt mean what I thought. To me today it means, Edging God Out.
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  7. #137
    Grantham was also a D Line coach for the Dallas Cowboys using Wade Phillips' one gap DL scheme in the 3-4...

    Maybe he liked that better and that is now who he is...

  8. #138
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    Just go to the 4-3 defense and this who 3-4 discussion would become moot. It seems to be going nowhere now anyway.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  9. #139
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Grantham was also a D Line coach for the Dallas Cowboys using Wade Phillips' one gap DL scheme in the 3-4...

    Maybe he liked that better and that is now who he is...
    Yes and no.

    Yes he did run that 1 gap for Wade Phillips but he also worked under Romeo Crennel in Cleveland, Dom Capers in Houston, and Nick Saban at Michigan State. If you watch Georgia you'll see a little bit of all of these 3-4 variations he has learned from all of those 3-4 guys.

    But it is exactly what I have been saying for like ever. They all do. That is why they are all similar.

    And no that is not who he is today ( and never really was)....

    From the article listed below...


    The reason this is important is because the 3-4 is a completely different system than the 4-3 defense they had in the past.
    In the 3-4 every assignment for the players, especially in the front seven, is completely different than the 4-3.
    The biggest change is the importance of the nose guard. In the 4-3, you have two big bodies clogging up the middle. In the 3-4, you only have one.

    The nose guard position is one of the most important pieces in Todd Grantham's defense. He has to be able to command a double team to make sure that the two inside linebackers can flow freely.

    The problem in 2010 was that Georgia did not have that player on their roster. DeAngelo Tyson performed well, but he is better suited for the defensive end position.


    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6...tter-in-year-2

    The only time Grantham ever went away from a 2 gap 3-4 is when player personnel forced it to or when the head coach he worked under preferred it.
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