Senile Dick

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I think it would be the same ole same ole with Butler. The existing players would feel comfortable and I really don't want that. Plus Butler's unit has been under performing. What have his current unit of LBs done so well that he's shown he can handle more? Plus if we go outside the org, we can bring in someone with experience with personnel. That's another big area we're lacking and I don't see Butler helping us out here.

Tomlin needs some outside help if he sticks around.

I understand you logic Flip. The D's problem is also centered on players. Clark & Troy are shells of their former selves. I'm good with the future in the front 7 with the only question mark inside next to Timmons. I'm not concerned to promoting within on the D side. Scheme rebuild has more transition & the Steelers are already 2 years removed from success. The Steelers spent years drafting their types of players to fit and until they got old it worked. I really hate to say it but I have seen things over the last couple of years. I really think DL's problem is in game if the gameplan doesn't work. I also think Butler sits on his hands a lot because...Well...It's DL. I am one who thinks Butler at the helm puts the D back to a Top 5 unit.

[flippy]

I understand you logic Flip. The D's problem is also centered on players. Clark & Troy are shells of their former selves. I'm good with the future in the front 7 with the only question mark inside next to Timmons. I'm not concerned to promoting within on the D side. Scheme rebuild has more transition & the Steelers are already 2 years removed from success. The Steelers spent years drafting their types of players to fit and until they got old it worked. I really hate to say it but I have seen things over the last couple of years. I really think DL's problem is in game if the gameplan doesn't work. I also think Butler sits on his hands a lot because...Well...It's DL. I am one who thinks Butler at the helm puts the D back to a Top 5 unit.

For all we know, Butler could be great. I'm just not sold staying in house as bad as things have gotten right now.

As far as the front 7 goes, I'd say that's our biggest problem right now. None of them are playing great ball. Timmons and Woodley are good, but inconsistent. Keisel's consistent and adequate but not great and aging. Jones and Heyward are developing but unknowns at this point. We don't have a quality starter at NT or ILB next to Timmons.

Our DLine is the biggest problem unit on our roster and I've been saying this before the season began and I still believe it to be true. Our LB play is mediocre. We can't get pressure and we can't stop the run. For the 3-4 to work, the LBs need to be stars and they aren't. The DLine needs to free them to make plays and they aren't.

We've gotta bring in 3-5 new guys to fix the front 7 and the players for this system are no longer easy to find. We'd likely have to use premium picks to upgrade, but we also need to use premium picks on the other side of the ball too. The change needed is so dramatic, I suspect any type of continuity might hold us back a little.

Butler's been with the Steelers for 10 years now. He probably thinks exactly like Lebeau on just about everything. And that might be perfect. Or it could be just as bad.

I almost think if the Steelers went in house, they could convince me that Carnell Lake is going to bring a fresh approach and revamp this D a lot easier than Butler could. I don't know how much Carnell knows about running an entire D, but his approach with younger players and his attitude of making things simple for new players so they can contribute resonate with the type of systematic change we need in this D.

Some guys just have that bigger than life persona and a bit of the IT factor where you know they have bigger things in their future. Lake's one of those guys to me. I never have gotten that feeling about Butler. Doesn't mean I'm right about either one of them. Just a hunch.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

For all we know, Butler could be great. I'm just not sold staying in house as bad as things have gotten right now.

As far as the front 7 goes, I'd say that's our biggest problem right now. None of them are playing great ball. Timmons and Woodley are good, but inconsistent. Keisel's consistent and adequate but not great and aging. Jones and Heyward are developing but unknowns at this point. We don't have a quality starter at NT or ILB next to Timmons.

Our DLine is the biggest problem unit on our roster and I've been saying this before the season began and I still believe it to be true. Our LB play is mediocre. We can't get pressure and we can't stop the run. For the 3-4 to work, the LBs need to be stars and they aren't. The DLine needs to free them to make plays and they aren't.

We've gotta bring in 3-5 new guys to fix the front 7 and the players for this system are no longer easy to find. We'd likely have to use premium picks to upgrade, but we also need to use premium picks on the other side of the ball too. The change needed is so dramatic, I suspect any type of continuity might hold us back a little.

Butler's been with the Steelers for 10 years now. He probably thinks exactly like Lebeau on just about everything. And that might be perfect. Or it could be just as bad.

I almost think if the Steelers went in house, they could convince me that Carnell Lake is going to bring a fresh approach and revamp this D a lot easier than Butler could. I don't know how much Carnell knows about running an entire D, but his approach with younger players and his attitude of making things simple for new players so they can contribute resonate with the type of systematic change we need in this D.

Some guys just have that bigger than life persona and a bit of the IT factor where you know they have bigger things in their future. Lake's one of those guys to me. I never have gotten that feeling about Butler. Doesn't mean I'm right about either one of them. Just a hunch.

We will have to agree to disagree. I like what we have for the future in our front 7 far more than the starting Dbs. Clark will be 35 in '14 & is a FA. Troy (33 in '14) & Taylor (34 in '14) will be two of the oldest Steelers and #4 & #5 highest paid. All of their play has declined. Lake will have the young guys ready but they need another starting CB here quick. As for the Butler debate, I just think he is our guy. I think it is an easy choice. Unless Tomlin convinces KC he wants to go 4-3...I think the Job is already Butlers. I don't think change of scheme is the focus...Just a younger experienced mind with new ideas.

[buccoray61]

The Butler promotion has already been decided by the FO. He IS the future DC of our Steelers. The writing has been on the wall for awhile and everyone knows it.. including Tomlin, Lebeau and Butler himself.

I know the position was promised/implied to Butler,however,they need to reevaluate everything that they are doing.I'm not saying that Butler shouldn't get the job,but they should revisit the issue.

[Oviedo]

For the 3-4 to work, the LBs need to be stars and they aren't. The DLine needs to free them to make plays and they aren't.

We've gotta bring in 3-5 new guys to fix the front 7 and the players for this system are no longer easy to find. We'd likely have to use premium picks to upgrade, but we also need to use premium picks on the other side of the ball too. The change needed is so dramatic, I suspect any type of continuity might hold us back a little.

This is whyyou move away from the 3-4. The talent is too hard to replenish and you discount too many from the available talent pool. As a 4-3 DE, Jadeveon Clowney would probably be considered as not fitting LeBeau's defense. Totally ridiculous.

[flippy]

We will have to agree to disagree. I like what we have for the future in our front 7 far more than the starting Dbs. Clark will be 35 in '14 & is a FA. Troy (33 in '14) & Taylor (34 in '14) will be two of the oldest Steelers and #4 & #5 highest paid. All of their play has declined. Lake will have the young guys ready but they need another starting CB here quick. As for the Butler debate, I just think he is our guy. I think it is an easy choice. Unless Tomlin convinces KC he wants to go 4-3...I think the Job is already Butlers. I don't think change of scheme is the focus...Just a younger experienced mind with new ideas.

I do agree on the DBs part. We need to replenish there as well. Seriously, there's almost no position that's safe in my mind. And the few that are either belong to aging vets or are being manned by young unknowns at this point. It's a giant clusterfudge no matter how you slice it

[flippy]

This is whyyou move away from the 3-4. The talent is too hard to replenish and you discount too many from the available talent pool. As a 4-3 DE, Jadeveon Clowney would probably be considered as not fitting LeBeau's defense. Totally ridiculous.

And we happen to have a guy on the coaching staff in Tomlin who's had some success in a 4-3. I do think going outside the org would help us make this transition a little easier.

On a side note. Given Tomlin's experience coaching D, if DL is really the problem and having issues making calls in game, why hasn't Tomlin taken over for him with the D play calling?

Seriously, guys like Belichick or Ryan get more credit for their team's D game plans than their DCs. I always get the impression that they're calling the shots no matter who they may have on their staff. Heck even with Cowher, I got the impression he was calling the shots. Not with Tomlin. He's like a kid along for a ride with DL letting him do whatever he wants.

I wonder if it's out of respect? Does Tomlin know better, but just won't step on DL's toes? It's gotta be an awkward position if Tomlin knows what he's doing but can't.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I do agree on the DBs part. We need to replenish there as well. Seriously, there's almost no position that's safe in my mind. And the few that are either belong to aging vets or are being manned by young unknowns at this point. It's a giant clusterfudge no matter how you slice it

Amazing what 2-6 does to a roster.

[flippy]

Amazing what 2-6 does to a roster.

Or what a roster does to your record - lol. It's like the chicken and the egg problem.

[Idaho Steelhead]

The Steelers DBs are terrible. They looked like pop warner kids trying to guard Gronk. Ike Taylor is a fraction of what he used to be, Gay is the absolute worst and Polamalu is constantly out of position. Clark still hits hard but couldn't chase down my grandma. That defense needs huge changes and unfortunately it starts with old man Lebeau.