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Thread: This is why a Ben trade would fetch a huge return....

  1. #71
    Hall of Famer ikestops85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dub View Post
    They could. And it doesnt necessarily have to be the Cardinals that match of for the Steelers in a trade. But if you will recall, the Arizona Cardinals tried that route recently, with Matt Leinart. It didnt work. And their current head coach is Ben's old (successful), offensive coordinator. One would think he may lean on the overpay side for a QB he has actually won a super bowl with.
    I understand what you are saying Dub ... and I agree. Let me add to your argument on why the Cardinals would be a good fit to overpay. They are a team on the rise ... both offensively and defensively. The key piece they are missing is a great QB. Somebody who could make Fitz valid again. That would be very attractive to them.

    Now for our side ... and I think what a lot of you are missing ... is we get a boatload for Ben. If Carson Palmer is worth 2 first rounders then Ben is worth that plus a 2nd rounder at least. I don't think we could get a quality player from them because that would defeat their whole purpose. I also think we can trade Pouncey for a 2nd rounder, throw in Sanders for a 3rd rounder. That would mean for the 2014 draft we would have 2 first rounders, 3 second rounders and 2 third rounders (Wallace compensation). Look to 2015 and we have 2 first rounders. That is a ton of quality picks in the next couple of years.

    Of course all of this depends on identifying a franchise QB to replace Ben and being able to draft said QB. Then with the other picks we can strengthen the areas we are lacking like LT and a Free Safety, and a Corner, and a physical Receiver, etc. It would also give us time to put some of the young guys on the field right now, take our lumps, and see what we have with them.

    I know some think you never give up a SB winning QB like Ben but if we keep going the way we are now the best Ben can get us to is 9-7. He will finish out his career on a mediocre team and tarnish everything he has done up to now.
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dub View Post
    They could. And it doesnt necessarily have to be the Cardinals that match of for the Steelers in a trade. But if you will recall, the Arizona Cardinals tried that route recently, with Matt Leinart. It didnt work. And their current head coach is Ben's old (successful), offensive coordinator. One would think he may lean on the overpay side for a QB he has actually won a super bowl with.

    well, overpay is exactly what you proposed

    for where AAZ will be drafting. no way they give a #1 that high for ben. having to pay a big contract to boot.

    the absolute most i can see them doing is late 1st(early 2nd) this year and a # 1 next year.

    would you make that trade?
    Last edited by NJ-STEELER; 10-18-2013 at 02:14 AM.

  3. #73
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    Does anyone see a calm sunny day or a storm if they end up under 500? If the Steelers go 6-10...Personnel turnover will not be the "end all solution". BB will not be the focus area of personnel turnover...He will be the focal point to build on. 6-10 will get Haley Fired or "retired". Jack Bicknell, Jr. will be replaced. I don't think Dick LeBeau will want to walk away after that kind of season but I think Butler's time is '14 or '15. The turnover on defense for Troy, Ike, Clark, Foote, & Keisel is on the horizon and I think DL retires when that has to happen.

    Take off our Steelers cap & put down the towel...Step back & think about it. We are smack in the middle of a pivotable period for the organization. Those of us who have been fans since our eyes focused on a football have seen it before. The page is "between fingers". When that page is turned...You don't wipe the slate clean & start over. You keep the pieces who still can make contributions and build. You don't throw away the most important player over the last decade who still has 4-5 years left in him. You don't have his replacement on the roster. You don't willingly chance setting back the organization several years by trading your franchise QB & hoping you hit on one in the 1st. BB has two more years under contract. If the Steelers elect to take a QB early to groom...That's a solid plan. BB will still be on the roster. It could be a Favre/Rodgers scenario. If & When the Steelers are confident they found "their guy" for the future...Then this conversation takes place.

    I hope I am wrong, but I think we are headed for a Top 5-10. I don't think a franchise QB will be the pick if that happens...But they will make it look like that predraft. I don't think they will have a shot at Bridgewater or Clowney. Of course the best thing to do is move around and let someone else give you picks to come get one. I see the Steelers selecting a Mathews, Lewan, Kouandjio, or even Mike Evans. Don't know if Watkins will be on their board that high with his arrest. I know the Steelers invested alot of high picks on the OL but you have to draft the grade that high. Seeing how Adams responds & developments and Gilbert's play the rest of the way could have an impact on the decision process. If there is ANY doubt on the OL at tackle at the end of 2013...The franchise LT trumps everything but QB. Right now...I don't see a QB being in the Steelers plans that high. JMO



  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dub View Post
    Well that isnt the way the NFL see things anymore. The emergence of so many young QB's coming into the league lately who have had immediate returns has changed that old way of thinking.

    And the Colts did exactly what you say you don't do.

    I think it is ridiculous to ever compare the way the Browns do things as opposed to how the Steelers do things. Their scouting department and player evaluation is far superior to the Browns.
    I couldn't care less what the "league" thinks. I care about rings. NONE of those guys you listed as young guns have won anything. How many SBs has Seattle won? You want to copy them? How many has Carolina won? But you're ok with copying them? Really?

    Our FO is superior to the clowns and it took them over 20 YEARS to get a franchise QB. The idea that franchise QBs are easily had now because of a few good (not great) rookies and 2nd year players is ridiculous.

  5. #75
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thor75 View Post
    I understand you are a fan of Ben.

    So the simple answer is... you have no faith in the current offensive coaches. Due to the current play on the field I would agree. I am just proposing a question myself.
    Would you keep Ben if you could get another OC this offseason?
    Thor the reason I propose this is two fold. One I believe the Steelers window has closed. And they are a bad football team on both sides of the ball. This isn't about an offense or defensive scheme. It is about not having good, playmaking players on both sides of the ball. I think they aren't one or two players away from competing for another championship. I think they need an influx of talent to get back to that. And two, the biggest return and the fastest way to get that would be to get a Herschel Walker return in a trade of Ben Roethlisberger.
    Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Freak! As in....

    1-Bernardrick McKinney MLB Mississippi State 6 ft 5 250 4.5 40 yard dash

  6. #76
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikestops85 View Post
    I understand what you are saying Dub ... and I agree. Let me add to your argument on why the Cardinals would be a good fit to overpay. They are a team on the rise ... both offensively and defensively. The key piece they are missing is a great QB. Somebody who could make Fitz valid again. That would be very attractive to them.

    Now for our side ... and I think what a lot of you are missing ... is we get a boatload for Ben. If Carson Palmer is worth 2 first rounders then Ben is worth that plus a 2nd rounder at least. I don't think we could get a quality player from them because that would defeat their whole purpose. I also think we can trade Pouncey for a 2nd rounder, throw in Sanders for a 3rd rounder. That would mean for the 2014 draft we would have 2 first rounders, 3 second rounders and 2 third rounders (Wallace compensation). Look to 2015 and we have 2 first rounders. That is a ton of quality picks in the next couple of years.

    Of course all of this depends on identifying a franchise QB to replace Ben and being able to draft said QB. Then with the other picks we can strengthen the areas we are lacking like LT and a Free Safety, and a Corner, and a physical Receiver, etc. It would also give us time to put some of the young guys on the field right now, take our lumps, and see what we have with them.

    I know some think you never give up a SB winning QB like Ben but if we keep going the way we are now the best Ben can get us to is 9-7. He will finish out his career on a mediocre team and tarnish everything he has done up to now.
    Exactly!! I promise you this, there will be many Steeler fans who cannot see this now, that will have a change of thought come this off season. 4-12 will bring out wolves who appear as sheep now.
    Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Freak! As in....

    1-Bernardrick McKinney MLB Mississippi State 6 ft 5 250 4.5 40 yard dash

  7. #77
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    well, overpay is exactly what you proposed

    for where AAZ will be drafting. no way they give a #1 that high for ben. having to pay a big contract to boot.

    the absolute most i can see them doing is late 1st(early 2nd) this year and a # 1 next year.

    would you make that trade?
    NJ, this happens a lot in the NFL. The Raiders gave up 2 1st rounder's for a washed up Carson Palmer. And they
    he too had a big contract coming to them. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/71...innati-bengals
    Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Freak! As in....

    1-Bernardrick McKinney MLB Mississippi State 6 ft 5 250 4.5 40 yard dash

  8. #78
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    My argument against trading Ben follows:

    Cliff Stoudt
    Mark Malone
    David Woodley
    Scott Campbell
    Bubby Brister
    Steve Bono
    Todd Blackledge
    Neil O'Donnell
    Mike Tomczak
    Jim Miller
    Kordell Stewart
    Tommy Maddox

    Have so many really forgotten the 80s and 90s? Twenty plus years between good QBs. If you have one you don't trade him.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  9. #79
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    These young QB's are having an impact because teams are throwing them out there on day one...

    we still have no idea how many of these QB's will be franchise/elite...

  10. #80
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    My argument against trading Ben follows:

    Cliff Stoudt
    Mark Malone
    David Woodley
    Scott Campbell
    Bubby Brister
    Steve Bono
    Todd Blackledge
    Neil O'Donnell
    Mike Tomczak
    Jim Miller
    Kordell Stewart
    Tommy Maddox

    Have so many really forgotten the 80s and 90s? Twenty plus years between good QBs. If you have one you don't trade him.
    Ovi, I understand this very much. The "if you have one you don't trade him" I agree with 100%. However those are under somewhat normal circumstances. Have you looked around lately at the Steelers? These are not normal times. This is not about trading Ben in his prime while the Steelers still have a shot at more championships. That window is closed and is going to remain closed for quite some time. Look at both sides of this team. It is void of playmakers and is projected to have the 3rd highest cap total next year. It is a bad football team. If the Steelers don't act in some way to change this course, Ben is going to look like he belongs in that group of past Steeler QB's. And he will be paid more than all of them combined. He is the link to the fastest way to turn this franchise around. And I bet anything that if the Steelers floated his availability out to the rest of the league this coming off season, the offers that come back will be very significant. Franchise changing.
    Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Freak! As in....

    1-Bernardrick McKinney MLB Mississippi State 6 ft 5 250 4.5 40 yard dash

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