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Thread: I thought this day would never come

  1. #121
    Obama and the people who drafted the ACA should have anticipated the greed of some and their willingness to sacrifice...other people....

    Similar to the shutdown...

  2. #122
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    or.... a much better look at it. As a small business owner, I'm happy with the ACA and I haven't had to lay off, fire or cut anyone's hours because of it.


    Why Obamacare is Good for Small Businesses
    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financ...iecki?mobify=0

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by JAR View Post
    or.... a much better look at it. As a small business owner, I'm happy with the ACA and I haven't had to lay off, fire or cut anyone's hours because of it.


    Why Obamacare is Good for Small Businesses
    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financ...iecki?mobify=0
    I don't think we can get on the case of businesses that shed workers or worker hours to maximize their profits. That is why they exist ... telling the Mom and Pop dry cleaning chain with 51 employees down the street that they "should" voluntary give money up is likely to be met with a laugh and a "Well, who' going to look after ME if/when things get rough?".

    I could buy that overall the ACA will be good for business (that newyorker article brings up a good point ... with the freedom to do so, a certain # of current large company employees who get their health care from the employer will quit, form their own company, AND HIRE WORKERS since they know under ObamaCare they will be able to still have health insurance) ... but that doesn't take the sting/pain away from the low wage people who WILL be hurt. I think there should have been some sort "transition" $$ built in to cover that pain somehow ...

    Having said that, I think most of the people who are told they are being laid off, or their hours are being cut, because of Obamacare are being fed a crock. The employer mandate doesn't go into effect until **2015**. These employers are just making standard business decisions about their labor costs, and ducking the responsibility by blaming it on the boogeyman, I mean Obamacare.

    Just my 2c.


    We got our "6-PACK" - time to work on a CASE!

    HERE WE GO STEELERS, HERE WE GO!

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by BradshawsHairdresser View Post
    Wow. That's real big of you, knowing nothing about me or my situation. You speak pretty freely, but if you were on my end of the stick, I wonder if you would be so glib about it all.

    As I understand it, it's not just the penalty, it's also the rising cost of the mandated insurance. Multiply that by enough employees, and it represents a significant cost. So the company made a decision to do away with most full-time employees.

    BTW, I get consistently great reviews for my work. Fortunately, my wife has a good job, and I have picked up other PT work, so we're doing OK for now.

    My sincere apologies Brad. It was not meant as a jibe at you at all, and it did come across that way. Its just wrong to seriously impute incompetence or other evils to a person one does not even know, and getting carried away by a discussion on anything on the net is not a good excuse for doing so. I'm sorry that I did.

    I was pointing out the numbers. What employers who cut their employees hours in response to Obamacare are doing is basically to insult the employees. In effect, they cut your hours to save $170 a month? Does that even make sense? Consider this -- you most likely produce that much for your company in a couple of hours. So why are they giving all that up to save $170? Surely they dont hold your worth that low?

    The fact is that they stand to gain a lot more by chopping you down from a permanent employee to a parttimer in terms of other regulations (cost of laying off, overhead, pension plans if any, etc). Its actually much cheaper for them to employ 7 part-timers than it is to employ 5 fulltimers, even if the total number of hours worked is the same. The Obamacare is less than a drop in the bucket. They're just using that as an excuse to screw you. If you hold Obamacare responsible for it, you're falling for their slimy tricks.

    This is not a comment on Obamacare -- I really haven't understood enough of it to say if it will be a good thing or a bad thing. My guess is that history will tell. It seems to have worked in MA.

    Honestly, there are better places to look to find evidence of government waste. Our defence budget is *huge*. Where does it all go. Consider this -- the naval research labs, funded by the navy cannot transfer their technologies directly to the navy. They are required to transfer it to a defense contractor who then turns around and sell it to the navy. This middleman -- Raytheon or Halliburton or one of their kind -- makes a killing without even really working for it! If that's not a scam, nothing is.

    I hear people rail on about how the food-stampers are scamming the working public. It may be so, but a much much greater amount of money is scammed by the insurance companies / military industrial complex.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by bostonsteeler View Post
    My sincere apologies Brad. It was not meant as a jibe at you at all, and it did come across that way. Its just wrong to seriously impute incompetence or other evils to a person one does not even know, and getting carried away by a discussion on anything on the net is not a good excuse for doing so. I'm sorry that I did.

    I was pointing out the numbers. What employers who cut their employees hours in response to Obamacare are doing is basically to insult the employees. In effect, they cut your hours to save $170 a month? Does that even make sense? Consider this -- you most likely produce that much for your company in a couple of hours. So why are they giving all that up to save $170? Surely they dont hold your worth that low?

    The fact is that they stand to gain a lot more by chopping you down from a permanent employee to a parttimer in terms of other regulations (cost of laying off, overhead, pension plans if any, etc). Its actually much cheaper for them to employ 7 part-timers than it is to employ 5 fulltimers, even if the total number of hours worked is the same. The Obamacare is less than a drop in the bucket. They're just using that as an excuse to screw you. If you hold Obamacare responsible for it, you're falling for their slimy tricks.

    This is not a comment on Obamacare -- I really haven't understood enough of it to say if it will be a good thing or a bad thing. My guess is that history will tell. It seems to have worked in MA.

    Honestly, there are better places to look to find evidence of government waste. Our defence budget is *huge*. Where does it all go. Consider this -- the naval research labs, funded by the navy cannot transfer their technologies directly to the navy. They are required to transfer it to a defense contractor who then turns around and sell it to the navy. This middleman -- Raytheon or Halliburton or one of their kind -- makes a killing without even really working for it! If that's not a scam, nothing is.

    I hear people rail on about how the food-stampers are scamming the working public. It may be so, but a much much greater amount of money is scammed by the insurance companies / military industrial complex.
    Very good points boston.

  6. #126
    Well, this was and is a nice thread. Everyone has a right to their opinion. I want to ask everyone just to stop and give 3 minutes of a "clear" mind. First, everyone probably knows someone who has gone bankrupt or maybe yourself (went through that terrible situation). Its a slow painful situation where someones life work and possessions can slip from out under him / family.
    One of the first steps is telling them to cut the credit cards and make changes to their spending habits- spending becomes prioritized. Sometimes a friend or family member has to be there. Do we all agree on this in our daily life experiences?

    I want to submit the change or friend is the TEA party. #1 The TEA party is for fiscal discipline. It is the only force (on either side of the aisle) to be that co-worker or friend who helps people who have made poor spending decisions in the past. The TEA party says this country, in a sense is "our HOUSE", and average households do not spend themselves so far in to debt that we affect our children's livelihood. Does anyone think with the decades of records of Boehner, Pelosi, Hoyer, Reid, Cantor, Obama, Biden, McConnell that they will right the ship? If they would, they would of already by god, we have paid them for decades and its only worse.
    Before anyone posts a "talking point" anti-tea party slur ask yourself:
    did the tea party devise the systems of social security, medicaid, medicare, food stamps, obamacare, fannie mae, freddie mac, sub-prime loans, education department, prescription drug benefits, tax breaks to big banks, subsidies to big farms, college loan programs, unemployment insurance, immigration policy and so on.
    THIS IS NOT TO SAY ANY OF THESE PROGRAMS ARE UNWORTHY, it is that these programs were not designed to be operated and not funded according to our budget. Back to our household budget that, we are all familiar with. If we make 50 k a year with 3 kids, we don't buy a ferrari or Lamborghini to get our family around. We don't eat at Mortons a couple times a week and so on. Now think of the party leaders and think about all the names they call TEA party members. These names are just like the friend or family member who intervenes when someone has a problem, but I would hope people on this forum would not parrot those unsubstantiated slurs.
    So what else does the TEA party stand for? It wants legal immigration that protects the people here LEGALLY. All those "average joes" on this board, it wants to protect your family, or job, your neighborhood, your skills, your govt benefits, your kids education from those who break the law and come here. NOTICE, the tea party doesn't say we want to protect these things for "only whites"- its for black, white, brown, yellow, whatever. It's for ALL AMERICANS. I would like those blue collar types, the LEGAL Asian, hispanic, black business owner or worker. Where is the worst schools, highest crime, worst healthcare in your community? Is it with high illegal populations or legal citizens? So you did the right thing and someone breaks the law and impacts your kids education, your kids healthcare, etc. The TEA party is for the legal citizen regardless of race, now how is that racist?
    Finally, the TEA party is against crony capitalism. Some may not know what that means. It is simply awarding work, contracts, programs, subsidies, loans and so on to friends. Does anyone see a problem with merit. Do you not want your daily interactions to be based on your merit. Does the TEA PARTY say only bush cronyism is ok, but obama's is bad? No, it against all cronyism both parties. If you take time you would find out the origins of the TEA party began with some of the disgust of Bush's exit and his starting of certain components of the 2007-2008 stimulus.

    Finally, honing in previous fellows comments. The fact is the shutdown is nothing new. It's happened over 50 times since the 70's. More than 1/2 the time, it was resolved with conditions and compromises. Of those 30 some shutdowns with compromises, the democrat party attached strings more often than republican (for the record). So Obama, asking for a clean bill, is out of the ordinary. The house entered the situation with a hardline position of de-defunding Obamacare. The president used a hardline position of "no negotiations". Ok, both are allowed. Nothing wrong yet. Then the house sent different versions and weaker "wants". Some of these wants were 1) treating individuals the same as big biz (mandates) 2) no more waivers to friends and businesses 3) repealing medical device tax (how can anyone want to tax extra on a wheelchair!) 4) a one yr delay because its not ready. (if you have a pulse and watch news, you know the system is not ready) 5) finally, stopping the special arrangement for Congressional staff to pay ins. cost. These are all TEA PARTY ideas which don't say, for example, repeal all medical taxes on white people. How insane- its for ALL people. The problem is the SENATE controlled by harry reid refuses to take up "watered down" house proposals. Here is the number one person to blame. His stubbornness is because he doesn't want his democrats on record against these "average Joe compromises" for 2014. I will even give Obama the benefit and say its reids position because I have no proof Obama ordered reid to do anything. Therefore, its not unprecedented TEA party member requests as the media has claimed. Its a failure of leadership and that is Obama's fault. Obama could say harry let them vote. Obama could of said weeks ago "GOP, thanks for backing off hardline position, let's talk now about these ideas." Think Reagan told ONeil to pound sand and no negotiations until you drop all demands? Wrong, he was a leader who sat down w/ his rival.
    Lastly, the talking point about heritage wrote romney care which therefore extrapolates obama copied is a falsehood. Heritage wrote an academic paper in 90's about mandated healthcare (like hundreds of other policy papers) - it was an idea. Then, several years later, their legal scholars examined it. They didn't like it and disavowed it. How come no one ever quotes this? You can't say a w/o b unless you are ignorant or blatantly dishonest. Romneycare bill was for Massachusetts, 1/30 the size written, w/o 8 pgs. of regulations for every obamacare bill page.
    I like Dr Ben Carson's solution. It would cost far less, insure everyone, and be something you can have and possibly pass on to your children. Simply at birth, 2,500 - 5k to LEGAL american child in form of health savings account. Yearly govt deposits until 18. Parents allowed to deduct / buy catastrophic plan to cover family w/ high deductible (these high deductible plans are or were very cheap). As a child ages an acct grows w/ safe low risk investment. When working age kid, young adult still is allowed to deduct pay into hsa to build. The interest alone, at 18, pays enough to pay for catastrophic policy. Finally, if that person is relatively healthy in old age, they get a terminal disease, they may pass that $$ wad to grandchildren instead of paying 500k in medical bills to live another 6-9 months. But its a TEA PARTY solution that empowers YOU (black, white, brown, yellow, whatever). But one thing it doesn't do is empower Obama, Mcconnel, Biden, Boehner, Pelosi.

  7. #127
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    I really haven't understood enough of it to say if it will be a good thing or a bad thing
    Neither do the people that passed it into law

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  8. #128
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    Regarding the government, follow the money and more often then not it leads to the people that make many of the decisions for this country.

    I don't know if Obamacare will perform well and serve it's true purpose or not. People always find loopholes in whatever laws the government passes. It's one reason why we have so many taxes and tax laws.

    Only time will tell if OBamacare will be good or bad for this country.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_six_rings View Post
    ... But its a TEA PARTY solution that empowers YOU ...
    With all respect, and speaking for myself only, this is a typical reason why the TEA PARTY is anathema to me:

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...own/?hpt=hp_t2


    We got our "6-PACK" - time to work on a CASE!

    HERE WE GO STEELERS, HERE WE GO!

  10. #130
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    I thought this day would never come but the Steelers won a game!!!
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