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Thread: Good read Cowher V's Tomlin

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    It's another BS article from the same group. I've posted this before but here it goes again:

    Again, Cowher had 3 players (one of which missed the entire SB season) and a couple of offensive players. 99% of which would be gone by this time in Tomlin's tenure. Cowher restocked the entire defense but those guys. Tomlin didn't restock anything. He had almost the EXACT same team as the SB team under Cowher. He replaced 3 people. Cowher replaced 8 just on the defense. The SB team of 95 was NOT stocked with Noll's talent. It just wasn't. 5 players no matter how good they are doesn't represent a full cupboard.

    Just to see how silly this is here is the starting lineup for the 95 SB:

    O'Donnell: Rookie in Noll's last year.
    Pegram- FA picked up by Cowher
    Williams- FA picked up by Cowher
    Mills- Rookie during Noll's last season. Had 3 receptions.
    Thigpen- Noll
    Bruener- Cowher
    Jackson- Noll
    Newberry- FA picked up by Cowher
    Dawson- Noll
    Stai- Cowher
    Searcy- Cowher
    Buckner- Cowher
    Steed- Cowher
    Seals- FA by Cowher
    Greene- FA by Cowher
    Kirkland- Cowher
    Brown- Cowher
    Lloyd- Noll
    Williams- Cowher
    Lake- Noll
    Bell- Cowher
    Perry- Cowher

    Woodson played some in the SB but was lost for the entire year. So 7 players, 2 of whom were rookies in Noll's last year, are the great "cupboard" that was left Cowher? Tomlin had 8 in his 5th year just on defense ALONE. Sorry, I don't see how anyone can say Cowher was left with a lot of talent. He had 3 really good defensive players and a couple of good OL. He had to replace 3 OL, ALL the RBs, ALL the DL, ALL but one of the LBers, and most of the CBs. It isn't even close to what Tomlin had.
    The point isn't how much or how little each coach had...

    Did Tomlin inherit more players? Sure...he also accomplished more in his first six seasons with "inherited players" than Cowher did...

    The similarity lies in what happened after the "inherited players" started to depart...the results have been similiar with both coaches...

    If you are saying that Cowher "restocked the cupboard" with his own players during those first six seasons, that makes him look EVEN WORSE during the three year playoff absence...

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    How did Aaron SMith, Hoke and Kemo look like there first 3 years in the league? No snark.. serious question. I know they were drafted higher than our vets and that should also be used when evaluating them.
    I remember Smith showing flashes early when he was on the field. He believe he got some snaps first in a rotation or as a backup and impressed, leading to him getting the starting gig. I also remember him being a bit smaller for a 3-4 DE initially and adding strenght.

    I don't remember much about Hoke early on. KVO first played at NT for the Steelers, and he was bad. He was much better when he was moved to DE.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by phillyesq View Post
    I remember Smith showing flashes early when he was on the field. He believe he got some snaps first in a rotation or as a backup and impressed, leading to him getting the starting gig. I also remember him being a bit smaller for a 3-4 DE initially and adding strenght.

    I don't remember much about Hoke early on. KVO first played at NT for the Steelers, and he was bad. He was much better when he was moved to DE.
    Hokie spent his entire first season on the PS...

    KVO played NT for LeBeau in Cincinnati...the story goes that the FO asked Dermontti Dawson for his opinion on Kemo and he said that Kemo was tough...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    maybe it's the scheme? We draft players and break them down and build them back up instead of letting them come in and do what made them attractive in college.
    Well, you are getting your wish on this one with this year's No. 1 pick. JJ hired to do exactly what he did in college....

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    The point isn't how much or how little each coach had...

    Did Tomlin inherit more players? Sure...he also accomplished more in his first six seasons with "inherited players" than Cowher did...

    The similarity lies in what happened after the "inherited players" started to depart...the results have been similiar with both coaches...

    If you are saying that Cowher "restocked the cupboard" with his own players during those first six seasons, that makes him look EVEN WORSE during the three year playoff absence...
    Tomlin did more with inherited players because he inherited BETTER players and more of them. Also did Tomlin go through a power struggle with the GM? Did Tomlin have to deal with FAs leaving because the STeelers couldn't afford to play them? Did Tomlin have to deal with pre-Heinz field budgets? Did Tomlin have to deal with a team that didn't have a franchise QB? It's stupid to think they had any similarities other than being a Steeler HC. Things were different back then but people forget that so they can build Tomlin up.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    maybe it's the scheme? We draft players and break them down and build them back up instead of letting them come in and do what made them attractive in college.
    I don't think you can blame it on scheme. Gildon, Porter, Emmons and Haggans among other were all developed. There were Steve Conleys as well, but a much better success rate than Chris Carter, Bruce Davis and Jason Worilds.

    Smith and Keisel were excellent examples of guys who developed, as was Orpheus Roye.

    Ike Taylor took time to develop, as a raw athlete out of a small school. Hopefully Cortez Allen will.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    It's stupid to think they had any similarities other than being a Steeler HC.
    ...and the fact that they struggled after starting to lose their inherited players...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Tomlin did more with inherited players because he inherited BETTER players and more of them. Also did Tomlin go through a power struggle with the GM? Did Tomlin have to deal with FAs leaving because the STeelers couldn't afford to play them? Did Tomlin have to deal with pre-Heinz field budgets? Did Tomlin have to deal with a team that didn't have a franchise QB? It's stupid to think they had any similarities other than being a Steeler HC. Things were different back then but people forget that so they can build Tomlin up.
    I think most are willing to give Tomlin time to fail...

    He inherited a good team and a franchise QB.. and we won a SB and appeared in another. The guy hasn't even had a losing season on the books and you are acting like we are on a 5 year playoff drought.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast View Post
    Well, you are getting your wish on this one with this year's No. 1 pick. JJ hired to do exactly what he did in college....
    and I expect good things from him and I'm thankful he is starting.

  10. #20
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    Tomlin just needs some leaders on the field. Ben and Troy are great players but not great leaders of men.

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