Doesn't it seems like Tomlin

[papillon]

well what OTHER reason would you not give him time to "build his own" team?? wouldn't that be "FAIR" ? I see plenty of ppl who hate him because he is black..

My point is valid..

If I recall correctly, Cowher built the team immediately and had them winning within a couple years of taking over. His slide occurred later after he had proven that he could build a team and he was then given leeway for down seasons. Mike Tomlin hasn't built anything yet and as a matter of fact it appears that the team is being deconstructed and floundering for leaders. Personally, I've supported Tomlin, but at this point and since being Tebowed this team has been in decline. The rebuilding has been occurring, however, it hasn't been fruitful to this point. I think the coaches (all of them) deserve some scrutiny right now. The Rooneys aren't knee jerk reactionary types, so it is my guess the coaches will be given ever opportunity to correct the ship before pink slips are handed out or retirement occurs.

Pappy

[Slapstick]

If I recall correctly, Cowher built the team immediately and had them winning within a couple years of taking over. His slide occurred later after he had proven that he could build a team and he was then given leeway for down seasons. Mike Tomlin hasn't built anything yet and as a matter of fact it appears that the team is being deconstructed and floundering for leaders. Personally, I've supported Tomlin, but at this point and since being Tebowed this team has been in decline. The rebuilding has been occurring, however, it hasn't been fruitful to this point. I think the coaches (all of them) deserve some scrutiny right now. The Rooneys aren't knee jerk reactionary types, so it is my guess the coaches will be given ever opportunity to correct the ship before pink slips are handed out or retirement occurs.

Pappy

I usually try not to quote myself, but:

Actually, Cowher went through something similar to what Tomlin is experiencing right now...

If your "Cowher's players" theory is correct, then you should really look at Cowher's career:

A lot of his early success came when Cowher had "Noll's players"...Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson, Dermontti Dawson, etc., and in the mid-to-late 90s, when those players left the team (Woodson and Lloyd) or were injured (Dawson), Cowher went through a three-year playoff drought while the team rebuilt with players like Joey Porter, Aaron Smith and Hines Ward...

We even went through the obligatory "letting young talent go (Chad Brown) while keeping an aging vet (Lloyd)" and "blown premium draft picks (Jamain Stephens, Troy Edwards, Jeremy Staat)"....

[feltdizz]

Please don't pull the race card with me. I'm not a subscriber to white guilt. I base judgments of players and coaches upon their skill set, and performance only. That was ignorant.

As for Cowher, he took a 7-9 team and turned them (without a franchise QB mind you) into an 11-5 team...first season. The team immediately had a new swagger, a new attitude you could feel...and you just knew it was going to be different. And it was different. He brought success back to the Burgh. Cowher had three straight crap seasons later...and trust me...we were calling for his head as well. Cowher started fresh with his coaching staff as well. He only kept on Hoak. He wanted new blood and his picks as coaches.

As for Tomlin, this is his 7th season. He kept most of Cowhers staff on. Had the player leadership built by Cowher. He walked into a perfect situation where he had a franchise QB and the best D in the NFL. Under Tomlin, the Steelers went from having one of the best turnover/take away ratios to being in the middle of the pack...same with penalties. Tomlin experienced success off the back of Cowhers staff and players.

Cowher's staff is gone...many of his leaders are gone. Tomlin AND Colbert have done nothing to groom and replace that leadership. These Steelers are the worst I have seen in my history as a fan. And you want to make this about race? That is just weak.

I remember the Russ Grimm/Tomlin race war on the Trib.. it wasn't pretty when Tomlin was hired.

The same things you said about Cowher apply to Tomlin... the team got a new swagger when Tomlin got here. He was young, fresh, new... and the team responded with success and we didn't have the "what will go wrong, who will choke in this AFCCG" like we always did with Cowher's teams.

Now that Tomlin has hit a wall some people on here are acting like Tomlin had nothing to do with our success. Everyone points out Cowher's struggle with the FO to get more power and influence and IMO we are seeing the same thing with Tomlin. Is Haley Tomlin's guy? Maybe but it doesn't smell like it. Is DL's 3-4 Tomlin's vision for the future or is it the 4-3? Not sure but I would like to see it play out vs shipping Tomlin out due to an 0-4 start.

I know this is new territory for the Steelers but in reality we are 2 games out and a few plays from being 2-2 or even 3-1. This may be a lost season but the way the AFCN is playing it looks like we aren't completely out of it yet.

It's odd to hear Tomlin and Colbert having nothing in place to replace the leadership rolls. This is the first dip in Tomlin's tenure but I think some are wondering if race plays a roll because some fans aren't even willing to let him have 1 losing season.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

We had a discussion in here over the off season where I said I believed Tomlin should be on the hot seat. I think it was a Cowher tread where I said I would take Cowher back if Tomlin couldn't right the ship. Argument-debate took place...There's a surprise. One of the points I brought up was about Tomlin coaching Cowher guys and I believed his success was related to that. I listed the players over the years that were Cowher starters. I think we are down to 5 of 22 from Cowher. Tomlin's fingerprint has increased as the Cowher's players have exited. This doesn't mean it can't get turned around but it does mean the last year & the next couple of years is when the evidence will surface in favor or against.

Last year & moving forward will be telling times about what kind of coach Tomlin is. He does have a difficult task with young players but that is in his job description. Cowher faced the struggles and turned it around. Tomlin is in the same boat & I believe the FO will give him time. Throw Haley & Colbert in there as part of the equation but Cowher had Donahoe, Erhardt, Gailey, Sherman, & Gilbride under short terms. Cowher faced the same adversity. I do think that BB being at the end of his window may influence some decisions we aren't used to if it doesn't get turned around this year. One thing I do look at differently with Cowher & Tomlin. Cowher had BB 3 years with 34-14 and had 2 AFCC appearances & 1 SB win to show. Tomlin had BB all 7 years. Makes you think what Cowher's resume would have looked like if he was able to stick around.

Sitting here I'm willing to see if Tomlin can turn it around. However, I do think he will have to force Haley out if they miss the playoffs. They may have to spend some money on an OC & OL coach...They have to exhaust & develop all unrealized talent on the OL if they feel coaching can accomplish that. They really have to invest & do it quickly because of the high round investments made on OL. Unfortunately, they won't be able to wait a year under a new OC & OL coach to see if they can develop.

If the Steelers are sitting in the Top 10 come draft day, they will be slotted for a franchise LT, CB, DT or QB. If they really tank into the Top 5 they may have a shot at an elite pass rusher. It makes you sick thinking they would spend another prime pick on OL but the reality of the business says you take a LT or CB there if you don't need a QB in that bottom half of the Top 10. So if this season continues down the "quick sand" path...We may be looking at a Bradley Roby or whomever is left out of Kouandjio or Lewan. That would mean the Steelers go down at least swinging. Given the youth of the core & IMO the coaching deficiencies...I think there is a VERY realistic chance the Steelers may be sitting in the Top 5. Clowney? Matthews? Looking to trade out of a top 3 pick and get a franchise LT and some draft picks that rebuild the franchise? I hope I just wasted 10 minutes of my life writing this post because the Steelers fix it and make the playoffs. What path does fate choose after 1-7 or 2-6 for the Steelers? I hope we don't find out!

[Slapstick]

Last year & moving forward will be telling times about what kind of coach Tomlin is. He does have a difficult task with young players but that is in his job description. Cowher faced the struggles and turned it around. Tomlin is in the same boat & I believe the FO will give him time. Throw Haley & Colbert in there as part of the equation but Cowher had Donahoe, Erhardt, Gailey, Sherman, & Gilbride under short terms. Cowher faced the same adversity.

This is exactly my point...Cowher had three consecutive non-playoff seasons after he lost Noll's players...4 games into this one, Tomlin must be fired?

At that time, if a message board had existed in the current format, with everyone and their brother having internet access, I'm sure we would have seen the same silly overreactions...

[Shawn]

This is exactly my point...Cowher had three consecutive non-playoff seasons after he lost Noll's players...4 games into this one, Tomlin must be fired?

At that time, if a message board had existed in the current format, with everyone and their brother having internet access, I'm sure we would have seen the same silly overreactions...

And we were calling for Cowher's head then too. Was that because Cowher was white? Or was it in response to the team playing poorly?

Two questions. Why did Tomlin keep Cowher's staff on? Why did Cowher hire his own staff?

[Steelhere10]

This is exactly my point...Cowher had three consecutive non-playoff seasons after he lost Noll's players...4 games into this one, Tomlin must be fired?

At that time, if a message board had existed in the current format, with everyone and their brother having internet access, I'm sure we would have seen the same silly overreactions...

People don't want to hear about Cowher having Three consecutive non playoffs. All they care about is when Tomlin going to have his first losing season, so the Rooneys can fire him.

[flippy]

I see plenty of ppl who hate him because he is black..

I'm not buying this. Pretty much everyone and their brother had a huge man crush on Tomlin when he was the youngest coach to win a SuperBowl. He's a cool cat. Always says the right things. We've quoted and admired like no other.

But then he talks about unleashing hell and his team doesn't back him up. And some doubt starts to creep in. Then a team that looks talented falls apart at the seams in 2012. We even made a ton of excuses for him. Big Ben, Troy, James, Woodley, etc were hurt. BA got fired. Haley's a tool. Colbert drafts poorly. DL is old. etc.

Fast forward to 0-4 and this team looks as bad as anything I can remember. Everything is in disarray. We have guys on the roster that he doesn't trust playing. No one seems ready or prepared. The passion is gone. Personally, I kinda like the steady, even keeled Tomlin. But I can see why people question him as a coach. Why wouldn't they question him whether he was black, white, yellow, blue, or green? He's under performing. That's not acceptable in Pittsburgh.

As far as I can tell, almost everyone just sees him as the coach of the Steelers. And passes their judgement accordingly. But for some reason, you seem to see him as a black dude. Why? I know that he is, but I don't ever consider it until someone brings it up. And I just don't see the point in bringing it up. Tomlin's just a guy like any other guy. And as I recall, Steelers fans were tired of Noll when he was losing as well as Cowher. I think the fact that Steeler Nation puts him on a short leash says we just think of him as a coach like any other. And we can't stand losing.

[Steelhere10]

And we were calling for Cowher's head then too. Was that because Cowher was white? Or was it in response to the team playing poorly?

Two questions. Why did Tomlin keep Cowher's staff on? Why did Cowher hire his own staff?

If it make you feel better Shawn I really don't take you as hating Tomlin because he's a black coach. I think you are as disappointed as most True Steeler fans. But some of the board have their own agenda and we all know what / who they are.

[feltdizz]

And we were calling for Cowher's head then too. Was that because Cowher was white? Or was it in response to the team playing poorly?

Two questions. Why did Tomlin keep Cowher's staff on? Why did Cowher hire his own staff?

You are conceding that calling for Cowher's head was a mistake so why call for Tomlin's head? Is this considered equal opportunity coach bashing? LOL..

Tomlin kept Cowher's staff because it was a year removed from the SB. Why the hell would he change things... that would have been all ego on his part.